Teach me about SUB chasing?

[sxa001]

This is a topic that is of some interest to me.  My last "Spree" was in 2016, since then I have been pretty selective about my cards.  In the past year through work travel I was able to meet SUBs with little effort (and did receive pretty good ones in my Citi AA, Delta AMEX, CSP, and Marriot).  I would never do MS, just isn't for me and that is all I will say on that one.

I opened  two cards in 2017, one card in 2018 and one card in 2019.  I have not opened any cards or accounts this year but hopefully will have a new Mortgage before the year is over.  My point is I have really cooled it, but still have way more cards than the every day Joe. Where this topic is of interest to me is that now that I am under 5/24, after I get my mortgage and give 3-6 months for my scores to recover a little bit I may wish to start opening up accounts again.  While I haven't been getting as many offers I used to get, I used to get some pretty nice ones in the mail from AMEX.  So I do wonder if once I get into the mid 800's across the board how big a deal it would be to get a card or two each yeah, leave them open for a year or two and then maybe close one or two that I am not using (leaving my oldest cards open of course).  This probably isn't in the same league as those serious about SUB chasing but I could see advantages to taking advantage of some bonuses that pop up if I coordinate around times when I will have the spend organically but I can't see myself having a bunch of cards with large AF's (like having both a platinum and a gold AMEX at the same time as my spend isn't going to make up for the $800 in AF's). 

[randomguy1]

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@M_Smart007 wrote:

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@randomguy1 wrote:

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@BmoreBull wrote:

I don't think churning is a really popular topic around here. Actually I think it's frowned upon. 

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I'm not sure if it's front upon, we should be relatively judgement free around here. I think MFicoers just tend to be more risk adverse and believe in slow and study. Keep in mind, there are senior members with 20+ cards however they mostly have thick, aged profiles. Nothing wrong with a little (or a lot) of SUB chasing IMO!

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@randomguy1, I read that really fast and thought ...Hmmmm? .. Talking about Me?

Good thing I don't drive a SUBaru

I mean, SUB's are nice .. have done fairly well, but I don't recommend  "churning and burning"

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You or K maybe

[Anonymous]

I would define "safe" SUB chasing as, relatively infrequently, if you spot a card with a big SUB with a spend that you can meet, you go for it even if the card has no real long term use for you.  (And as pointed out by others, the SUB must be in a form you can easily use!).    If it is from an issuer you have no other interest in, even better.   You then keep the card open for at least a year to avoid  flagged.

In the past (and some still do) people would be more aggressive about going after any SUB, $200 here, $150 there etc.   Now issuers have clamped down and even when there are no official policies the risks can be too great.

But,  LTLs equation still holds true:   MS > SUB > rewards on spend.   So a good SUB is going to be more profitable than organic spend even on a high yielding card. e.g. a fairly modest $200 sub would take more than $6600 spend to beat on a 3% card and $10K on a 2%

So the temptation is there.   And so are the risks!

[AverageJoesCredit]

Step one :

Hold up 5 fingers and sing the SUB way anthem🎵   

Step two Buy your SUB and use the app for discount

Step three:

Pay with a Chase card

SUB CHASING🤑

[Azza]

Great advice and suggestions in this thread.

Yeah, I'm not really sure if I want/need to sub chase or churn right now. Citi Costco covers almost all of my spending, and for everything else there's Alliant (not MasterCard lulz).

I can see a function out of the Freedom, with the grocery bonus that is a very sore hole for me since Amex keeps declining me, but is it short-sighted of me to use a card for a year then basically bail out on it?

I made $170 with my Discover IT cashback bonus. Felt pretty good; was utilizing categories and spent on it like it was a 2% card. But now I just use it for categories (which are actually very good) then when I max one I stop using it again. I was also spending less last year than I am now.

So yeah. As some of you said, it's a different situation for everyone. $200 doesn't seem like an awesome bonus, so I wonder if I hold out can I find that $500-1000 cash back offer free and clear?

*Ponderous*

[NRB525]

In cards that earn cash back as their reward system, with no annual fee, expect to be in the $200-$500 zone. 

The larger apparent bonuses are on travel cards that charge an annual fee. But then there's the AF to pay, and to use the rewards best one should travel. That last step is problematic these days.  

Any idea why AMEX keeps declining you? 

[Azza]

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@NRB525 wrote:

In cards that earn cash back as their reward system, with no annual fee, expect to be in the $200-$500 zone. 

The larger apparent bonuses are on travel cards that charge an annual fee. But then there's the AF to pay, and to use the rewards best one should travel. That last step is problematic these days.  

Any idea why AMEX keeps declining you? 

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No idea. My first app with them I was at 680 with no utilization, second was at 780 with some utilization and the third was at 760.

I'd have to look at the reasons for sure, but they seem to love their fico codes for saying no

Edit: went back and took a look, their most recent one (fico 777) said too many inquiries recently, too many accounts reporting balances, ratio of highest loan to account balances too low (mortgage?) Bleh.

Honestly I can garden for a while. No great products out right now they I don't already have coverage for.

[iced]

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@Anonymous wrote:

But,  LTLs equation still holds true:   MS > SUB > rewards on spend.   So a good SUB is going to be more profitable than organic spend even on a high yielding card. e.g. a fairly modest $200 sub would take more than $6600 spend to beat on a 3% card and $10K on a 2%

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In a cash-back only world or a world where one only values points by some arbitrary amount such as that TPG weirdo, I would have a hard time arguing this point. But, in a more realistic travel world, there's very little SUB chasing one can do without getting diluted across ecosystems, which in turn dilutes their value.

If I have a steady stream of use for UR but not MR, throwing organic spend toward the FU and CSR is going to go further for me than chasing random Citi or American Express promotions. Sure, the TPD..er, G is telling me they're all valuable, but at the end of the day I'd rather have 1 million UR than 333k each of UR, MR, and TY because I already have things I can do with UR. With the other two, I'm either having to wait out multiple SUBs to attain enough to cash in or cashing them in at a diluted return for something inferior to what I wanted.

SUB chasing to me is like a slightly less obnoxious form of extreme couponing. Sure, your numbers say you're coming out way ahead, but it's not often mentioned that you're in a constant state of settling or compromising with whatever you can get on deep discount that particular day. You're going to be stuck with things you might otherwise have not gotten, you're going to settle for brands that were on sale rather than brands you prefer, or you're going to be funneling things through 3+ channels to convert them into something you can use.

Again, if your only goal is cash-back, it's a different story. $100 is $100, even if it's only $100.

[K-in-Boston]

As long as your profile and finances can support it, no problems with opening new accounts here and there.  As others have mentioned, heydays like opening 6 AA cards or multiple BoA Better Balance Rewards cards every year are long gone, and you need to be cognizant of what you currently have and how current and potential lenders will view your antics.  Barclaycard is notorious for AA (I'm not talking about the airline cards anymore) after a number of new accounts have been opened.  Amex isn't a lender I would personally ever close a card prior to at least the 2 year mark with.

The point dilution comment iced made is certainly one to consider.  I personally dabble in MRs, URs, TYPs, SkyMiles, Marriott points, and US Bank AR points.  Some I have 300k point balances on, others much less.  I tend to be more of an earn and burn person.  I know what I expect to get from each program (and they all serve my Delta/Marriott needs in some form or another) and I have enough organic spend to accrue a meaningful amount of points (this has been $10k or more in rewards earned annually for the past 4 years).  I am not so much the private suite on an Emirates flight or a week in the Maldives kind of redeemer.   Knowing that once my miles earnings are factored in that I'm earning more than 2 cents per point on most programs is fine for me on a domestic flight. 5 nights in a Marriott or a weekend getaway in a Ritz-Carlton at 2-3 cpp are also just fine.

But if one cannot be selective about when and where to redeem their points, or they are focused on cash back, travel cards with huge SUBs may not be the best idea.

[recoveringfrombk7]

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@Azza wrote:

Great advice and suggestions in this thread.

Yeah, I'm not really sure if I want/need to sub chase or churn right now. Citi Costco covers almost all of my spending, and for everything else there's Alliant (not MasterCard lulz).

I can see a function out of the Freedom, with the grocery bonus that is a very sore hole for me since Amex keeps declining me, but is it short-sighted of me to use a card for a year then basically bail out on it?

I made $170 with my Discover IT cashback bonus. Felt pretty good; was utilizing categories and spent on it like it was a 2% card. But now I just use it for categories (which are actually very good) then when I max one I stop using it again. I was also spending less last year than I am now.

So yeah. As some of you said, it's a different situation for everyone. $200 doesn't seem like an awesome bonus, so I wonder if I hold out can I find that $500-1000 cash back offer free and clear?

*Ponderous*

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If you're bored and not bothered by a potential 4506t request, you could always do a 2nd Discover card.