Thoughts on Apple Card - Maybe?

[SKBirdmind]

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@FinStar wrote:

ETA - since you were recently approved for Costco Visa + Hawaiian Airlines MC, perhaps consider closing any rebuilding CCs such as First Progress + Merrick that have annual fees and eventually consider the same for Credit One.

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A couple of folks suggested getting rid of my secured cards that are really geared towards rebuilding. You could absolutely argue that they've ran their course and done what I needed them to do. Other than getting $400 back in security deposits with small annual fee savings, I'm kind of curious what the other advantages would be? Since I'm not up to 20+ different credit cards each with limits above $40K alongside AmEx calling me several times a week wanting to sign me up for their Centurion Black with a $2 Million limit - I guess I'm not hot-to-trot on axing anything. Unless of course, keeping such accounts open would do more harm than good?

Same with Credit One, only more so - 4 months ago, they pre-qualified me for Platinum X5 with a $3,000 limit. It's the 3rd-highest I've ever gotten to date, and I've been a customer of theirs since August 2020. I just can't picture myself kicking them to the curb anytime soon...

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@FinStar wrote:

If the bolded statement goes against your ordinary methods for using a CC, spending habits or your current lifestyle, then the Apple Card will likely not be a good fit.

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@CreditAggie wrote:

The card isn't great if you don't intend to use Apple Pay so unless you plan to start using Apple Pay then I would pass.

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This seems to (not surprisingly) be a general consensus - I'd tend to agree. And no, never tried anything with Apple Pay...

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@unsungivy wrote:

Well, I'm a bit anti-Apple, but I will say that if you can transition yourself to using Digital Wallet more often then not you will be doing yourself a favor.

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Some valid points here but again, guess I haven't jumped on the bandwagon yet - be that e-wallets, wrist implants, OR tracking devices!

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

When I look at Apple rewards, I can't stop shaking my head.

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That's a good visual (and points you raise), even more so if that's all they offer 3% cashback on - even EVEN more so if you have to pay-by-mobile-phone in order to qualify for it. I think paying via the legitimate card they include is capped to only something like 1%-1.5% = no better than my Quicksilver...

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

Why in the world would Apple want to promote Uber, Walgreesn, Duane Reade, T-Mobile, Nike, Exxon, Penera and Ace Hardware?

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Propaganda?

[Aim_High]

Apple is giving back way more than 5% on some of its' products.  For purchases in-store, you do earn "only" the 3% but also qualify for 0% financing with installment payments on those purchases.  Anytime.  That can add up.   Apple is prequalifying customers to encourage use of the credit line in-store.  Smart.

Apple is also building the Apple Pay payment network with this card.  Cardholders earn 2% anywhere Apple Pay is accepted.  Sure 2% flat-rate isn't spectacular, but it's not bad at all considering there are many 1.5% and less card options out there still.  AMEX MRs and Chase URs are worth (up to) about 2 cpp on-average and 1 point (2%) is baseline earnings for Platinum, Gold, or Sapphire Reserve.  Sometimes less, sometimes more, depending on redemption and ability for useful redemption of credits against the AF.  On My Fico, for cash back enthusiasts, 2% is considered very respectable.    Back to Apple Pay, though.  Apple is building demand for Apple Pay since cardholders look for it and use it.   Smart.

Why does Apple have special rewards rates at certain retailers?  Same reason that AMEX, Chase, Wells Fargo, or Capital One partner with certain retailers for "Offers."  There's a business partnership behind the scenes.  Apple is no different. 

There are many cards on the market that are thriving which pay a base of 1% with higher 2% and 3% categories.  Some consumers don't want to carry a bunch of cards.  This card isn't aimed at the rewards optimizer, but it will continue to do just fine.  For example, the Bank of America Customized Cash Rewards card is a 3-2-1 card but there are many others. 

[Aim_High]

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@SKBirdmind wrote:

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@FinStar wrote:

If the bolded statement goes against your ordinary methods for using a CC, spending habits or your current lifestyle, then the Apple Card will likely not be a good fit.

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@CreditAggie wrote:

The card isn't great if you don't intend to use Apple Pay so unless you plan to start using Apple Pay then I would pass.

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This seems to (not surprisingly) be a general consensus - I'd tend to agree. And no, never tried anything with Apple Pay...

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It's true that Apple card isn't a very good fit if you don't/won't use Apple Pay.  Personally, I had never used mobile wallet until I got the Apple card, so I used it as an opportunity to experiment with the advancement.  I also had doubted how widely it would be accepted.  Turns out, Apple Pay is pretty widely available and mobile wallet is a very convenient way to pay.   I kind of like it now. 

As for lackluster rewards, that depends.   You currently don't have a card that pays more than 1.5% cash back rewards and Apple can pay 2% to 3%, depending on the payment method and/or vendor.  The Venture card's miles are worth most if you plan to use them for travel redemption but the value is poor for cash back. (0.5 cpp which is equivalent to a 1% cash back card.)   Are you willing to accrue points for travel in-lieu of more immediate cash back?  Are you willing to forgo flexibility of redemption without losing value? 

If you already have an iPhone, the Apple card is truly seemless to manage from your phone's wallet, all without having to really set anything up like with other cards.   The card quickly, easily, and immediately shows when/where new charges were made and gives a spending breakdown.  Paying the card is very easy via phone interface.  While the physical card does only earn 1% cash back it does have some cool security features.  The card number isn't on the card (it's safely accessible from mobile wallet) and the security code can be set to change frequently for enhanced security.  This card is very secure from a fraud standpoint.   The credit limits on this card have been known to grow very well with usage, which might benefit you from where you describe your current credit profile.  Sometimes, there are desirable features in a card beyond the rewards rates. 

[SKBirdmind]

Fair point on savings through no interest on Apple Store purchases, especially with the way things are priced there nowadays... While I still gladly carry a wallet containing cards, cash, and a driver's license - I can definitely see the appeal for some who'd much prefer consolidating a bunch. Honestly, it wouldn't have occurred to me how "widely accepted" Apple or contactless payments are now - guessing some combination of the coronavirus era, Apple Card release, plus Apple wanting to make a big play in the market?

Correct on my current profile not earning a ton of rewards - but my Citi Costco Visa shipped yesterday and offers 4% on fuel, 3% on restaurants or travel, 2% at Costco, and 1% on all else. I think this is all redeemed and paid out once a year, if I understood my membership rep correctly. I also get small statement credits (< $20 a month or so) from Credit One every month, under a rewards structure that's even less clear to me.

By "safely accessible from mobile wallet" - I assume this means in order to key in the card number for an internet purchase, I would only be able to access said number from mobile? Seems borderline impossible for someone to commit fraud with... Gotta say - I'm still around 50/50 on this card following your detailed writeup, and even more so knowing it can grow with routine spending.

Keep 'em coming!

[OniStringer]

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@CreditAggie wrote:

The Apple Card was great when I started out. I use Apple Pay wherever possible even back when I paid for everything with my debit card so the 2% back with Apple Pay was excellent for a starter card. Since I now have so many other cards that can earn 3% to 5% in many categories, the Apple Card doesn't see as much use but is still good to have. The card isn't great if you don't intend to use Apple Pay so unless you plan to start using Apple Pay then I would pass. 

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This is pretty much it for me as well. I love my apple card, looks great in the wallet, 3% and occasionally 6% i got at Nike couple times plus on apple products was nice. Apple Pay is something i use a lot of as well so that's nice too. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

I would say unless you shop at the likes of apple and nike etc and use apple pay. Prolly not a good fit. I also am an apple fiend so i got it because apple logo 😂

[ThomasJNewton]

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

My answer is a firm no.

It had a lot of hype from beginning just because it has Apple logo and from Goldman.  But the reward is very light.

Have to disagree. It pays a simple 2% for all charges done with ApplePay (the way I do 99% of my charges whether I use the Apple Card or not), and 3% at some other merchants (Apple, Uber, Starbucks and Walgreen’s - among others). I do not bother to carry the physical card with me, since it would then be only 1%. If you enjoy spending energy on optimizing your rewards programs, there are certainly others that can offer great benefits, but the nice thing about it is how little thought one has to give to using it. However, if you do not use ApplePay, the card is certainly not a great card to have.

I had this card because I heard this card won't have HP or would not report to CB or some other false comments.  But that is not true.  It still counts as a new card.

Neither Apple, nor Goldman Sachs claimed that they would not report a hard pull once you actually accepted the offer, and while others reported that they were not seeing regular reports, that was at the very beginning and never something either company said would be the case. What they did say (and what is true), is that they give you an offer with your line of credit based on a soft pull and do not do a hard pull unless or until you accept the offer. My BF applied, got an offer that was not enough to make it worth it, tried again every month or two until he got an offer that was quite a bit higher and then accepted it. All those requests resulted in a single hard pull on Transunion.

I've only used this card twice.  Both time just to keep it active.  I've spent more than $20,000 over the past holiday shopping at local Apple store.  But I found I'd much better off not using Apple card with Apple purchases.  

Just so that I understand, you got the card not understanding the reward structure or you knew the reward structure, felt it was inferior, but got it anyway because someone said that it might not report to the credit bureaus? I would like to know what card you ended up using for your over $20,000 in purchases that was better than unlimited 3% cash back? I spend a fair amount on Apple gear and services, so I would like to know what other card I should be considering.

The more Apple products I buy, the less I like it with the way Apple does business.  Anti competitive.  Privacy invasion.  And incompetent customer support.  

Wow, $20,000 just over the holiday season? You sure spend a lot of money with someone about whom you feel that way.

I am curious in what way you feel they invade your privacy, and who you consider better than they in that regard? One thing I love about ApplePay when I use it with websites is the ease of check out, where my ApplePay wallet with let me choose among my address for shipping and billing and I do not need to create an account with the merchant (providing them my information for them to lose in data breaches).

[ThomasJNewton]

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@unsungivy wrote:

but I will say that if you can transition yourself to using Digital Wallet more often then not you will be doing yourself a favor.

Completely agree with you here. I have been using ApplePay and friends have been using GooglePay since they launched and there are some many advantages that I find it odd there are still people that do not like them.

Not having a physical card you can have stolen, lost, or just forgotten somewhere is amazing (seeing as you can jump online or any other phone and disconnect anything you're truly concerned about if you feel compromised for whatever reason... including a lost or stolen phone, is much much much better than dealing with trying to get through to multiple CC issuers to freeze things).

Even better, if a card is compromised in some other way, many issuers will update it on ApplePay as soon as it is sent out (do not know how this works and GooglePay, so would love some information on it from any users). This makes it the fastest way to get an updated card (as it is instant), rather than even waiting for an overnight delivery.

Having access to all your various methods of payment at any given time allows you to be able to min-max categories on the fly... or use that debit card for a withdrawal without having to haul it around useless 90% of the time.

I have eight cards on my Apple Watch and iPhone, including one from a friend for whom I often make purchases. Almost all of my purchases are made with ApplePay with the exceptions of the few times I have to shop at Wal*Mart and whenever I need to go to Home Depot or Lowes. Was happy when one of the other last holdouts here in LA - Ralph’s started accepting it. I often do not carry my physical wallet, (leaving it locked in my car where I need it for my license) and just use my watch or my phone for payment. While I know there are some who like to carry paper boarding passes to get through the airport, having my boarding pass on my Watch makes life so much easier. Since I have Clear (and most airports through which I travel offer Clear verification), it means I do not even take my wallet out of my backpack when I travel).

Your watch may be for telling time... for now... but going for a run and not having to carry your wallet "just in case" is a glorious thing.

Could not agree with you more! I eagerly await my car supporting Car Key, and the adoption of Digital Driver’s licenses, so I could completely stop carrying my wallet in my car. I already transitioned my lock at home to Home Key so I no longer have a 5 digit pin for my door and do not need to carry a key when I go out for a walk/jog. Even the Coke machines in our area support it (so great to grab a bottom of Desani at the far end of my walk, without having to have either cash or a physical card and without worrying about skimmers.

I can see that you, OP, don't have a ton of cards like some of us, and so it might be no problem for you to carry 6ish cards in your wallet. But I feel that this the direction the payment world is taking, and it's better to ease yourself into the technology now (which is designed to make your life easier) while it's still in the training-wheels phase before we all get our wrist implants! 😁

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The auto selection feature - offering the card where requested by a merchant - is really nice. Easy to override, but makes sure that the right card is used without needing to think about it. All these benefits are valuable no matter whether you decide to get an Apple Card or not.

[ThomasJNewton]

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

I get the US Bank Altitute Reserve.  All mobile wallet is solid 3x or 4.5% if used for travel.  How much does Apple card earns?

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According to their website, it is now 3 points for travel unless used for pre-paid hotels and car rentals booked through their web portal.

U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve Visa Infinite Cardmembers will earn 1 Point for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases. In addition, you will earn 4 Points (5 Points total) for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases spent on prepaid car and hotel reservations purchased in the online Altitude Rewards Center using your U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve Card. Prepaid car and hotel reservations in the Rewards Center are not classified as a travel category merchant transaction and are not eligible to receive the additional points for that category. Please allow 1-2 statement billing cycles for your bonus Points to appear on your credit card statement. Refer to the Rewards Center for full details. You will earn 2 Points (3 Points total) for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases during each billing cycle for transactions made directly with merchants who classify their business as a travel category transaction (such as purchases made directly with airlines, hotels, car rentals, taxicabs, limousines, passenger trains and cruise line companies), and for transactions using a mobile wallet. “Mobile wallet” is defined as the method of paying for a transaction by use of a mobile device (in-store, in-app or online) and includes Apple Pay®, Samsung Pay, and Google Pay™. If the transaction is an eligible mobile wallet transaction and an eligible travel category transaction, additional Points will only be awarded for one of the transaction types (Points will be applied as mobile wallet, not travel ).

One other nice thing about the Apple Card cash back is that it requires no effort to collect it. Every day it is automatically deposited into my Apple Cash account, with no redemption minimum. U.S. Bank requires a minimum of $50 to redeem, BofA only let one redeem at the end of the month. As someone else mentioned, the 24 months of interest free payments on Apple Purchases can also be worth a lot for those who take advantage of it.

@SKBirdmind, in your specific case, I would also consider that there is there is no risk in applying. One either gets an offer that includes one’s starting limit, a rejection or a Path to Apple Card email, with no hard pull unless or until one accepts the offer.

Finally, while as I said, if one is not going to use Apple Pay, the card does not make much sense, if one does use it, there is a lot to be said for the effortlessness of Apple’s Daily Cash. Waiting a year for a paper check from CitiBank for 3% at restaurants and 4% for non-convenience store gas stations just seems like a hassle. Everyone’s pain threshold is different and everyone’s interest in expending energy chasing points is different. The nicest thing about an Apple Card is that one can set it as the default card on one’s iPhone and not have to think about it at all. If one is not using Apple Pay, it is probably not the right card to use. If one is using Apple Pay and one has a better card for a specific transaction (and one remembers to switch to it), choosing that card is really easy and it means that one does not have to carry it around. If one is the kind of person who enjoys having lots of cards and actively managing/chasing points/rewards, there are better cards than the Apple Card. If one is not that kind of person, it is a pretty solid choice.

[Anonymous]

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@ThomasJNewton wrote:

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

I get the US Bank Altitute Reserve.  All mobile wallet is solid 3x or 4.5% if used for travel.  How much does Apple card earns?

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According to their website, it is now 3 points for travel unless used for pre-paid hotels and car rentals booked through their web portal.

U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve Visa Infinite Cardmembers will earn 1 Point for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases. In addition, you will earn 4 Points (5 Points total) for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases spent on prepaid car and hotel reservations purchased in the online Altitude Rewards Center using your U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve Card. Prepaid car and hotel reservations in the Rewards Center are not classified as a travel category merchant transaction and are not eligible to receive the additional points for that category. Please allow 1-2 statement billing cycles for your bonus Points to appear on your credit card statement. Refer to the Rewards Center for full details. You will earn 2 Points (3 Points total) for every $1 in eligible Net Purchases during each billing cycle for transactions made directly with merchants who classify their business as a travel category transaction (such as purchases made directly with airlines, hotels, car rentals, taxicabs, limousines, passenger trains and cruise line companies), and for transactions using a mobile wallet. “Mobile wallet” is defined as the method of paying for a transaction by use of a mobile device (in-store, in-app or online) and includes Apple Pay®, Samsung Pay, and Google Pay™. If the transaction is an eligible mobile wallet transaction and an eligible travel category transaction, additional Points will only be awarded for one of the transaction types (Points will be applied as mobile wallet, not travel ).

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It EARNS 3 points per $ on travel/mobile wallet, but when redeemed for travel, either via portal or (much better) real time rewards, each point is worth 1.5, hence the 4.5%    For heavy mobile wallet users, who also travel sometimes (using at least one of plane/hotel/rental car) this is really hard to beat.

[ThomasJNewton]

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@Anonymous wrote:
It EARNS 3 points per $ on travel/mobile wallet, but when redeemed for travel, either via portal or (much better) real time rewards, each point is worth 1.5, hence the 4.5%    For heavy mobile wallet users, who also travel sometimes (using at least one of plane/hotel/rental car) this is really hard to beat.

So for people who travel a bit, but not much, in that if one travels a lot, having and using the airline's and/or hotel's own card is likely to offer substantially better benefits. Not having used their portal at all, I am curious about some things (that I hope you can explain): Will I always get as good a rate as I would if I booked directly? What happens if I cancel a reservation, do the points get credited back? Are there any fees for booking through them? Am I able to use corporate codes for appropriate discounts? Do I give up any status benefits booking through them vs. booking directly with the airline, car rental company or hotel? Do I get the same benefits using their portal to redeem as I do using their card (they are one of the companies that offer primary rental car insurance, a big benefit)?