Virtual Card Numbers

[delaney1]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Bank of America got rid of their Shopsafe virtual accounts a year and half ago?

Citi looks like it's ending virtual credit cards in a month or two.  Really going to miss this because of the 2% cash back.

I have 3 capital one cards and their "eno" firefox add on but I have never been able to get it to work.  Is it only for chrome, how does the eno compare?

Are there any other alternatives?

Really hate putting my actual card on any website, checking statements to see if there's fraud, having to freeze accounts and get new cards with new numbers issued etc.

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I've never downloaded the browser extension. One day the Virtual Card option just appeared in the Capital One app. Before that, the app just showed my actual card number when I wanted to pull up my card number without having to pull out my actual card.

[WavysMommy]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Does anyone use virtual card numbers online?

Which credit card companies have that option?

Please share you experiences with them.

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I use Privacy. No complaints and I've even received cash back. You can pick whether the card number is one-time use or merchant-focused, with preset limits.

[Anonymous]

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@WavysMommy wrote:

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I use Privacy. No complaints and I've even received cash back. You can pick whether the card number is one-time use or merchant-focused, with preset limits.

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Can you link a credit card with Privacy, seems to suggest only bank or debit as funding sources.

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Can you link a credit card with Privacy, seems to suggest only bank or debit as funding sources.

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It only allows you to link a bank account.   I've found that it works well even for situations where I wanted a refund from merchant.  It's  pretty transparent.

Linking to a bank account is a little scary,  but the VCCs allow for risk management by allowing specific you to set a spending limit ($1!), creating one-time use VCCs, specific time limited VCCs, etc.  You can also delete a VCCs any time you want (and a deleted VCC can still receive a refund, I've had to do that, it was no problem).

Notes:

• There is no apparent way to contact privacy.com by phone.  Like Uber or Lyft, business model appears to depend on customer 'self-service'. 
• Privacy.com has the only VCC product I've found that consistently works for sneaky trail subscriptions that automatically rebill if one doesn't cancel. 

Overall I'd rather have a beef with my bank than a creditor.  The amount of hot water available is slightly less.  I'd rather be robbed than have my reputation ruined! 

[Anonymous]

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Can you link a credit card with Privacy, seems to suggest only bank or debit as funding sources.

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It only allows you to link a bank account.   I've found that it works well even for situations where I wanted a refund from merchant.  It's  pretty transparent.

Linking to a bank account is a little scary,  but the VCCs allow for risk management by allowing specific you to set a spending limit ($1!), creating one-time use VCCs, specific time limited VCCs, etc.  You can also delete a VCCs any time you want (and a deleted VCC can still receive a refund, I've had to do that, it was no problem).

Notes:

• There is no apparent way to contact privacy.com by phone.  Like Uber or Lyft, business model appears to depend on customer 'self-service'. 
• Privacy.com has the only VCC product I've found that consistently works for sneaky trail subscriptions that automatically rebill if one doesn't cancel. 

Overall I'd rather have a beef with my bank than a creditor.  The amount of hot water available is slightly less.  I'd rather be robbed than have my reputation ruined! 

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Citi allows you to set VCCs with a fixed limit and even a 1-2 month automatic expiration. No way would I ever use Privacy. You forfeit the cash back and the security of your checking account. Nope!

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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bed than have my reputation ruined! 

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Citi allows you to set VCCs with a fixed limit and even a 1-2 month automatic expiration. No way would I ever use Privacy. You forfeit the cash back and the security of your checking account. Nope!

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Can you link a credit card with Privacy, seems to suggest only bank or debit as funding sources.

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It only allows you to link a bank account.   I've found that it works well even for situations where I wanted a refund from merchant.  It's  pretty transparent.

You have a point @Anonymous  ...but...

My take so far is that that privacy.com's controls address most of the cons normally associated with debit cards, and in some situations their use is more advantageous for reducing the risks I wish to avoid with a given transaction.

I tend to use these kinds services in specific situations, where either I don't fully trust the vendor or wish to avoid getting trapped by a sneaky trail subscription scheme.  Getting the best deal on cash back isn't foremost in my mind for those kinds of charges.  Also, privacy.com's service is available to almost anyone with a bank account, whereas very few credit cards come with VCCs these days.

I like that pricacy.com services are 'in the middle' so they can provide their services independently of either merchant or financial institution where my account is located. Their product is designed to be llogical virtual agent, which I can configure to behave as I like.  I see no reason why the VCCs would behave unexpectedly. Privacy seem to have thought things through pretty well, so that, for example, if you delete a VCC but later need to receive a refund, they revive it just long enough to process the refund than back to the graveyard it goes.  And perhaps most importantly, Privacy's interests are not aligned with my financial institution or the merchant, but pretty clearly with mine, towards retention of my loyalty for futuure transactions.

I have my doubts about how a disputed charge will come out with a credit card lender, whether my lender will really be in my corner, I being but a poor debtor as far as a lender is concerned. With Eno, the only other credit card VCC product that seems likely to be around in a couple months, I can't limit the amount available for a purchase or create one-time use VCCs. I can delete them, which is good, but I'm not protected from being billed up to my credit limit (by the merchant on the initial charge). So it seems to me the worst case is 'worser' with Eno.

I'd rather take some risk of losing the amount of a transaction rather than risk loss up to my entire credit card credit line, and beyond that, end up in a standoff with my cc lender where I owe a large amount of debt to a bank and face a decision whether to pay or have my credit file marked as 'not paid as agreed' which has pretty terrible consequences.

[Anonymous]

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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bed than have my reputation ruined! 

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Citi allows you to set VCCs with a fixed limit and even a 1-2 month automatic expiration. No way would I ever use Privacy. You forfeit the cash back and the security of your checking account. Nope!

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Can you link a credit card with Privacy, seems to suggest only bank or debit as funding sources.

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It only allows you to link a bank account.   I've found that it works well even for situations where I wanted a refund from merchant.  It's  pretty transparent.

You have a point @Anonymous  ...but...

My take so far is that that privacy.com's controls address most of the cons normally associated with debit cards, and in some situations their use is more advantageous for reducing the risks I wish to avoid with a given transaction.

I tend to use these kinds services in specific situations, where either I don't fully trust the vendor or wish to avoid getting trapped by a sneaky trail subscription scheme.  Getting the best deal on cash back isn't foremost in my mind for those kinds of charges.  Also, privacy.com's service is available to almost anyone with a bank account, whereas very few credit cards come with VCCs these days.

I like that pricacy.com services are 'in the middle' so they can provide their services independently of either merchant or financial institution where my account is located. Their product is designed to be llogical virtual agent, which I can configure to behave as I like.  I see no reason why the VCCs would behave unexpectedly. Privacy seem to have thought things through pretty well, so that, for example, if you delete a VCC but later need to receive a refund, they revive it just long enough to process the refund than back to the graveyard it goes.  And perhaps most importantly, Privacy's interests are not aligned with my financial institution or the merchant, but pretty clearly with mine, towards retention of my loyalty for futuure transactions.

I have my doubts about how a disputed charge will come out with a credit card lender, whether my lender will really be in my corner, I being but a poor debtor as far as a lender is concerned. With Eno, the only other credit card VCC product that seems likely to be around in a couple months, I can't limit the amount available for a purchase or create one-time use VCCs. I can delete them, which is good, but I'm not protected from being billed up to my credit limit (by the merchant on the initial charge). So it seems to me the worst case is 'worser' with Eno.

I'd rather take some risk of losing the amount of a transaction rather than risk loss up to my entire credit card credit line, and beyond that, end up in a standoff with my cc lender where I owe a large amount of debt to a bank and face a decision whether to pay or have my credit file marked as 'not paid as agreed' which has pretty terrible consequences.

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If it works for you, that's all that matters. 

I still don't believe that Citi updated their VAN tool to make it no longer dependent on Flash back in August just to discontinue it now. There is a thread on a forum I can't link to here that has a pretty decent thread about it and it seems that only AA cards lost it. 

When you log in to the VAN area, there's a FAQ at the bottom that tells me without a doubt that VANs are here to stay. 

• Why can’t I create or update my Virtual Account Numbers up to 12 months?

  With the upgraded experience on the way, we are setting the maximum expiration to August 2021.

• Will I be able to use my current Virtual Account Numbers at merchants after the new experience is released?

  Your current Virtual Account Numbers will continue to work at merchants until they expire.

• When will the new upgraded experience be available?

  We look forward to releasing the improved version in early summer 2021.

• When the new upgraded experience becomes available, will I be able to manage or create Virtual Account Numbers from the old experience?

  You will not be able to manage or create Virtual Account Numbers using the old experience. However, we will provide view-only access for a limited time so you can see details of your existing Virtual Account Numbers.

• With the upgraded experience on the way, should I continue creating or updating my Virtual Account Numbers?

  While we do not want to disrupt your continued protection with Virtual Account Numbers, we recommend you limit the amount of new numbers you create as you will need to generate new Virtual Account Numbers from the upgraded experience.

• What can I expect from the upgraded experience?

  The new experience will make it easier than ever to set up and manage your Virtual Account Numbers. We’re looking forward to sharing more details as we get closer to launching the improvements!

• Will Visa be supported in the updated experience?

  We will no longer support Visa products in the updated experience. However, we may revisit this in the future.

[Anonymous]

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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I have my doubts about how a disputed charge will come out with a credit card lender, whether my lender will really be in my corner, I being but a poor debtor as far as a lender is concerned

I'd rather take some risk of losing the amount of a transaction rather than risk loss up to my entire credit card credit line, and beyond that, end up in a standoff with my cc lender where I owe a large amount of debt to a bank and face a decision whether to pay or have my credit file marked as 'not paid as agreed' which has pretty terrible consequences.

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I don't think I understand all the protections....   So let's say you have a $5000 charge (I understand that that might not be your use case for using Privacy!).  The purchase doesn't arrive/is damaged/not what you were promised   and the merchant becomes uncontactable.    With a CC, you could create a dispute and you aren't out of money unless and until the decision goes against you.   What does Privacy do that is better?

And if this risk with a credit card is up to your entire credit line, surely the equivalent is multiple Privacy transactions up to your bank account?

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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I don't think I understand all the protections....   So let's say you have a $5000 charge (I understand that that might not be your use case for using Privacy!).  The purchase doesn't arrive/is damaged/not what you were promised   and the merchant becomes uncontactable.    With a CC, you could create a dispute and you aren't out of money unless and until the decision goes against you.   What does Privacy do that is better?

And if this risk with a credit card is up to your entire credit line, surely the equivalent is multiple Privacy transactions up to your bank account?

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The 'protective' features of Privacy CC VCCs  let you creat a new VCC that

1.  Can be used for ONE transaction ONLY.   This means after you authorize one charge, any additional charges attempted by the merchant or anyone else are refused.

2.  Support for creating a VCC with a maximum cummulative limit (as I understand it, this maximum is not a per-charge maximum, but the total amount that can be spent over the lifetime of a particular VCCs existence). Privacy.com's product is a little different than Eno (for example).  Eno is geared towards creating enduring VCCs on a per merchant basis.  You can freeze or delete Eno VCCs, but you can't create them to automatically expire after one use and can't  limit transaction amounts (one-time or cummulative).  Privacy.com's features make it ammenable to creating many VCCs, so I create them for individual transactions & then destroy them (or set up one-time use VCCs, which destor themselves automatically).

I am not sure I understand the equivilence you metion as regards multiple privacy transactions to your bank account [balance].    As a result of making multiple transactions whether or not there have been  problems with several of them, could reduce your bank balance to zero.  But if one has used control limits on a per transaction basis,  any set resulting from multiple  transactions will be less risky than the set of the such transactions without risk-mitigation features.

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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• Will Visa be supported in the updated experience?

  We will no longer support Visa products in the updated experience. However, we may revisit this in the future.

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It's that last bit that causes concern.  I can't make out what Citibank's 'upgraded' product will be.  Does the above imply it's going to be a Mastercard network product?   If that were the plan, I think they would be specific.  Instead their FAQ appears to use marketing department inspired language to describe a vaguely defined substitute where the only concrete think we learn is that it's 'no longer a visa'.  I don't mean to argue with you, but when I read this FAQ and thought about it for a few minutes, it seemed to be primarily a service cancelation notice than the announcement of a comparable or upgraded product. 

I think the VCC feature is pretty popular with customers so I think some hope that popular outrage may force them to keep the features or at least to replace it with something that still supports the Visa or Mastercard network.

As I''ve said the thing I notice doesn't work well with Citi's product is if you try to use it for trail subscriptions which automatically rebill a full subscription if you don't cancel in time.  I did a little research on that and came across some notes that this is because Citi doesn't want to deal with the many transaction disputes that arise from this.  Citibank customers use the VCCs then don't bother to cancel the trail, thinking the merchant can't get away with renewing the subscription.  But merchants try to do so, and then complain to Citibank and can make legal claims because they have the users acceptance of terms.