Virtual Card Numbers

[Anonymous]

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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• Will Visa be supported in the updated experience?

  We will no longer support Visa products in the updated experience. However, we may revisit this in the future.

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It's that last bit that causes concern.  I can't make out what Citibank's 'upgraded' product will be.  Does the above imply it's going to be a Mastercard network product?   If that were the plan, I think they would be specific.  Instead their FAQ appears to use marketing department inspired language to describe a vaguely defined substitute where the only concrete think we learn is that it's 'no longer a visa'.  I don't mean to argue with you, but when I read this FAQ and thought about it for a few minutes, it seemed to be primarily a service cancelation notice than the announcement of a comparable or upgraded product. 

I think the VCC feature is pretty popular with customers so I think some hope that popular outrage may force them to keep the features or at least to replace it with something that still supports the Visa or Mastercard network.

As I''ve said the thing I notice doesn't work well with Citi's product is if you try to use it for trail subscriptions which automatically rebill a full subscription if you don't cancel in time.  I did a little research on that and came across some notes that this is because Citi doesn't want to deal with the many transaction disputes that arise from this.  Citibank customers use the VCCs then don't bother to cancel the trail, thinking the merchant can't get away with renewing the subscription.  But merchants try to do so, and then complain to Citibank and can make legal claims because they have the users acceptance of terms.

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It's pretty clear to me. Their VISA cards like Costco won't have VANs. 

I don't know how you got cancellation from this. 

"What can I expect from the upgraded experience?

The new experience will make it easier than ever to set up and manage your Virtual Account Numbers."

It is clear as day that there is an upgrade coming and that upgrade is due this summer. 

On the dispute front, it's fine that you only have a single transaction to worry about but if that transaction goes south, you will have to work with your bank to get your money back rather than working with a credit card company where you may not have paid the bill yet. In the Privacy situation you actually have two companies that you'll need to contact in addition to working with the merchant. In the case of the credit card, you're just contacting the merchant and the credit card company. It's normally much easier to dispute with a credit card than with a bank account. When I had to dispute something with my bank, that money was gone from my account until the investigation was over with and that was the last time I used my debit card for anything other than paying for my drivers license renewal. The only transactions that come out of my bank accounts are Zelle transfers, bank to bank ACH, and credit card payments. 

[Anonymous]

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@Oops_I_Did_It_Again wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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I don't think I understand all the protections....   So let's say you have a $5000 charge (I understand that that might not be your use case for using Privacy!).  The purchase doesn't arrive/is damaged/not what you were promised   and the merchant becomes uncontactable.    With a CC, you could create a dispute and you aren't out of money unless and until the decision goes against you.   What does Privacy do that is better?

And if this risk with a credit card is up to your entire credit line, surely the equivalent is multiple Privacy transactions up to your bank account?

I am not sure I understand the equivilence you metion as regards multiple privacy transactions to your bank account [balance].    As a result of making multiple transactions whether or not there have been  problems with several of them, could reduce your bank balance to zero.  But if one has used control limits on a per transaction basis,  any set resulting from multiple  transactions will be less risky than the set of the such transactions without risk-mitigation features.

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You said the risk with a credit card is up to your credit card limit.  If your card is stolen/hacked, yes, they could charge up to (or even above your limit) but in general you wouldn't be responsible.   If instead you charge and have a dispute with your merchant, and you lose, yes, you could owe all that money.    But how is that different with Privacy.  Even with limits, enough losing transactions would drain your bank account, so I don't see why this is an advantage

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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On the dispute front, it's fine that you only have a single transaction to worry about but if that transaction goes south, you will have to work with your bank to get your money back rather than working with a credit card company where you may not have paid the bill yet. In the Privacy situation you actually have two companies that you'll need to contact in addition to working with the merchant. In the case of the credit card, you're just contacting the merchant and the credit card company. It's normally much easier to dispute with a credit card than with a bank account. When I had to dispute something with my bank, that money was gone from my account until the investigation was over with and that was the last time I used my debit card for anything other than paying for my drivers license renewal. The only transactions that come out of my bank accounts are Zelle transfers, bank to bank ACH, and credit card payments. 

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Right, that was my point in the single $5000 transaction in my earlier post.   I am not responsible for the money while the dispute is ongoing, and will only be if the decision goes against me.   In general, with a debit card, the money has gone from my account and I have to fight to get it back.   That's why I was asking if Privacy does something special, like refund my money during a dispute.

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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You said the risk with a credit card is up to your credit card limit.  If your card is stolen/hacked, yes, they could charge up to (or even above your limit) but in general you wouldn't be responsible.   If instead you charge and have a dispute with your merchant, and you lose, yes, you could owe all that money.    But how is that different with Privacy.  Even with limits, enough losing transactions would drain your bank account, so I don't see why this is an advantage

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Because if your create a new VCC which is set for 1 Transaction only and a LIMIT = to the amount advertised as the amount of THAT purchase, the most you can lose is the amount set as the LIMIT for that VCC, (because any attempt to charge more, or make multiple charges, will be refused by Privacy.com).  At least that is my understanding:

VCC with $20 for one use only

[Oops_I_Did_It_Again]

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@Anonymous wrote:

On the dispute front, it's fine that you only have a single transaction to worry about but if that transaction goes south, you will have to work with your bank to get your money back rather than working with a credit card company where you may not have paid the bill yet. In the Privacy situation you actually have two companies that you'll need to contact in addition to working with the merchant. In the case of the credit card, you're just contacting the merchant and the credit card company. It's normally much easier to dispute with a credit card than with a bank account. When I had to dispute something with my bank, that money was gone from my account until the investigation was over with and that was the last time I used my debit card for anything other than paying for my drivers license renewal. The only transactions that come out of my bank accounts are Zelle transfers, bank to bank ACH, and credit card payments. 

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I am focusing on real world situations here.  I don't buy 5,000 dollar item (to address longtime lurker's specific example)  under circumstances where I'd be worried about the kinds of things that involve using a VCC. 

When I make expensive purchases, I'm going to be doing business with a well known  company, Apple say, or a local business I've done business with previously and am comfortable with, or at least under the protection of a marketplace like Amazon or Ebay, so that if I have a dispute about something, I'll at least have a reasonable hope that a manager  market place customer support for investigation and resulting in a refund. 

Quite honestly, I've not once ever, in my unfortunately pretty long life, had to dispute a charge with a financial institutions. I have had a couple disputes through Amazon, Ebay and recently through Ali Express for $200 bucks, when the merchant acknowledged he didn't have my item in stock and asked it would be OK to wait for a couple months....(not really).  But for me it's never come to a situaton where I had to ask my bank or lender to refund my money or not pay a charge.

I think I'm probably like most other people in that I'm not going to be making a truly  expensive purchase until  after doing a lot of research into what I'm buying, from whom I'm buying it,  the terms, and many other circumstances related to the purchase.  Not the type of purchase I'd be using a VCC with.   In fact I'd want the merchant to know who I am in such cases.  It will probably be necessary from the merchant's point of view to learn something about me as well.  So the concern about the problem of having to dispute a large purchase with the bank vs a lender is pretty much a red herring. 

The concern and basis for using a VCC, at least for me,  is that in taking some risk making a smaller purchases (where I'd like, ideally, to make *sure* the risk is no larger than the cost of the goods) I want a way to make as certain as possible that my credit card account number, exp date, and sec code are not passed on to a criminal, whose object will be to charge as much as possible till the limit stops him or her from charging anything more.

[SOGGIE]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Does anyone use virtual card numbers online?

Which credit card companies have that option?

Please share you experiences with them.

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I'm not sure about which individual credit card lenders offer the VCCN Option, but when linking a cc to GPay, virtual CC numbers are generated for sales transactions. I would think Apple Pay would work the same way.