@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:The Discover IT "MILES" card is the best cash-back SUB deal on the market. Miles are basically cash-back. It only earns 1.5% but unlike the other Discover cards, there are no special categories and no spending caps. You get 1.5% on everything. And with the match at the end of the year, you get effectively 3% cash back on everything you buy, uncapped, with no annual fee. Sweet deal!Well, best depending on your spend! To overcome a $500 SUB and a 2% card, you need to spend $50K on it, at places that take Discover and where you don't have a better card. I got about $3000 in first year cashback on one miles card, $2000 on the other (my wife and I each had one in consecutive years) but that involved a fair amount of MS
Say what?? I don't know of ANY 2% card paying a $500 SUB right now, but that would be nice.
I just got a $100 SUB for $1500 spend on my new PenFed Power Cash 2% card, and it's one of the only 2% SUB offers I know of. Most don't give one at all.
Discover is actually pretty widely accepted.
As said, the Venture card has $500 SUB but it also has a $95 AF unless you cancel or downgrade it after year one, and it also doesn't pay out in direct cash, so it's not a 2% cash-back card.
I wasn't doing an apples-to-apples comparison, but I meant IF you have a 2% card (which many do) getting a $500 SUB on another card would outperform going for a Discover IT Miles. The Venture is a good example actually, as unless you are doing transfers it's not useful after year one, just like IT Miles (OK, you could keep the latter for free, but it is of no use!)
@wasCB14 wrote:BCP and Cash Magnet have both offered $300 at times (BCP with AF due). CSP has a nice bonus (up to 60k), a modest first-year AF, and offers cash redemptions at 1 cpp. Savor was $500 for a while.
There are other good card SUBs. We all know that. Whether they beat Discover IT Miles effective 3% cash-back SUB in year one is the question. These other offers are worth considering, of course, but are they better? Probably not, in most cases. And none of these cards offers the implied $500 SUB with no AF on a 2% cash-back card.
The current offer on Cash Magnet is $150 SUB but it only pays 1.5% cash-back. Similar to the Chase Freedom Unlimited SUB, Discover IT Miles outearns it after $10K annual spend, even with the current SUB. That's only $834 per month or more.
Even though Blue Cash Preferred currently has a $250 SUB, it also has an unwaived $95 AF (Net: $155 SUB) and only pays a pitiful 1% cash back on anything other than supermarkets, streaming, transit, or gas. There is also a $6K spending cap on supermarkets. Discover Miles at 3% on everything would quickly outearn it in year one, even with those other higher-payout categories, especially with the cap.
Capital One Savor's current SUB is $300 and $95 AF waived in year one. Especially with the waived AF, that's a very good SUB, but Savor also only pays a pitiful 1% cash back on uncategorized spend (although it does pay 4% Dining/entertainment and 2% groceries - uncapped.) Even more than BCP, the breakeven point on this one would have to be matched to a specific profile because the calculations are too complex. Since there is a higher SUB than BCP, a waived AF, and an uncapped higher-payout category, it could come closer to matching Discover than BCP. However, with the Savor earning a higher return ONLY in the dining/entertainment category and less in most others, Discover will still come out ahead on this horse race; it's just a matter of when. And it's not really a close race for most consumer spending. At 1% versus 3%, anything more than $15,000 ($1250 per month) in annual uncategorized spending would beat the $300 Savor SUB itself; it's only a question of when the 3% uncategorized spend also exceeds the 4% dining/entertainment.
Now for the Chase Sapphire Preferred. My statement was 'best SUB on cash-back cards.' While Ultimate Rewards points on the CSP can be redeemed as cash, that would be a wasteful use since they are worth more for travel and are only worth 1ccp for cash. But yes, you could do that if you wanted the cash and the breakeven point does come a little later, although not close to the $50K spend example @LTL suggested. The SUB on CSP is 60K UR points ($600 cash value) less the $95 AF = $505. But it only earns 1% in CASH with exception of Dining and Travel's 2%. Even with this high SUB, Discover's 3% payout versus 1% ties it without having to pay a lump-sum SUB at $25,250 in uncategorized annual spend and then keeps on earning. Heavy dining out and travel spend does furthur dilute this, but that is profile-dependent and with uncapped spend, Discover would still outearn it at some point, regardless of HOW much dining and travel you used since it pays a full 3% on everything, uncapped.
I'm not saying any of these are a bad cards for the right spend or profile; just saying the sign-up bonuses don't compare to a 3% uncapped uncategorized spend for a full year. That is unmatched. And of course, previous or future SUBs can always change the equation but I was comparing currently-available offers.
I've only seen **ONE** recent SUB that might beat this offer from Discover for most consumers, and it's not currently available. And whether it would beat it would depend on how high your spend goes. At high spend, Discover Miles even beats this one. Navy FCU Flagship Visa's SUB was recently 50K points ($500) with a $49 AF. Assuming you didn't benefit from the Global Entry credit, and taking that away, the effective SUB is $451. Flagship earns 2% on everything and 3% on travel, so it's a much closer match to the 3% uncategorized on Discover. Still, Discover earns 1% more on uncategorized spend. That requires more than $45,100 annual spend (average $3,758 per month). Many consumers won't beat that, so Flagship could come out slightly ahead of Discover in that scenario.
The only card I have been comtemplating is a hotel card. Hilton or Marriot I'm unsure which but lean more towards Marriot. Just really don't want to add another card right now. I feel if I do add, I should close something which I don't want to do. I really don't need the Freedom Unlimited TBH with my DC. I suppose I could get a Chase Marrit Bonvoy and take the limit from the FU and split it among the Marriot and my Freedom. I'm already approved for a 21k CSP but I had one and PC'ed it to the FU so that doesn't help me. All this probably means I should just sit tight. Plus the SUB for the Bonvoy is 5k in 3mos. Kind of pricey.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:The Discover IT "MILES" card is the best cash-back SUB deal on the market.Well, best depending on your spend!
I don't know of ANY 2% card paying a $500 SUB right now, but that would be nice.
I wasn't doing an apples-to-apples comparison, but I meant IF you have a 2% card (which many do) getting a $500 SUB on another card would outperform going for a Discover IT Miles. The Venture is a good example actually, as unless you are doing transfers it's not useful after year one, just like IT Miles (OK, you could keep the latter for free, but it is of no use!)
Ummm, okay. 
To me, that is just muddying the water. It's hard to compare multiple combinations of SUBs and cards in the same thread which can be very profile-dependent. And nobody has a credit card that permanently pays 3% on everything, uncategorized, uncapped. Period. That animal doesn't yet exist, if it ever will. The 3% on USBank Altitude Reserve is restricted to Mobile Wallet and it also charges an AF. And yes, even though many of us already have a 2% card, other cards paying more than 2% in special categories, or premium travel cards that pay out higher values in travel points, bringing all that profile-dependent criteria into the equation just adds unnecessary confusion for many of our forum members and readers who have younger profiles and basic needs. True, the more other options you have, the less attractive a SUB like this could appear. And as always, YMMV. But the payout on year one is pretty hard to beat for most people, even with other cards in their wallet.
For example, what if I compared Discover Miles to the Bank of America Premium Rewards card with Platinum Honors earnings 2.625% with a $500 SUB and a $95 AF? Obviously that's a better deal and PR only earns 0.00375% less than Discover's first-year 3%. To match BoA PR's SUB with Discover IT Miles, you'd have to exceed an annual spend of $108,000, much more than many people make in an entire year! But you'd also have to qualify for a very selective card and have high deposits over $100K with BoA. This card is out of reach for many people and is not really a fair comparison. But with enough spend, Discover could even beat this monster of an offer, for someone very wealthy or with high business spend.
There are always exceptions and caveats based on someone's existing cards and other offerings. I will still recommend Discover IT Miles card as the best cash-back SUB on the market when compared to any other cash-back SUB. How much better it is may depend on profile and what other card offers are available at the time.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:BCP and Cash Magnet have both offered $300 at times (BCP with AF due). CSP has a nice bonus (up to 60k), a modest first-year AF, and offers cash redemptions at 1 cpp. Savor was $500 for a while.
There are other good card SUBs. We all know that. Whether they beat Discover IT Miles effective 3% cash-back SUB in year one is the question.
The effective SUB is 1.5% as we usually don't count normal earning as part of the SUB (e.g. on Venture you are earning 2% as well as the SUB)
True. I misstated that but it doesn't change the point I was making about the 3% effective earning power. The additional 1.5% earning power is the SUB, but the total return in year one is the point. So I should have said to be more precise, "Whether they beat the Discover IT Miles effective 3% cash-back return is the question."
Amex Hilton Honors card is my main goal card for the first half of 2020. Other card I might consider later on this year is Amex BCE, BCP or Savor One.
