What's the term for?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

True, but again, I'm rebuilding and doing everything the right way and I refuse to put all this work in, obtain these great cards to later force BOA Citi, Capital One, Discover, or AMEX to see me cycling thousands of dollars and getting shut down or at best, being placed on their radar.

Chase is good at closing accounts from everything from too many AU, high utilization, and obtaining too many credit cards from competitors, as people do everything the could to stay under 5/24, obtain multiple Chase cards, then foolishly go on an app spree getting numerous cards and then Chase realizes this and shuts down their cards, wasting two years of hard work.

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Always do it the right way and not risk getting the issuer angry by gaming the system, or any other suspicious activity where it makes them uncomfortable having you as a customer. You win in the long run.

If you are still not sure about cycling, call customer service. They should be able to tell you off the bat.

[Anonymous]

Well, thanks everyone for your advice. I'm going to go full speed on cycling my BOA and TD Bank cards this month, especially since I will be shopping lke crazy for Black Friday.

One thing that I love about BOA, is, I can nearly max out my card, and go pay it down minutes after those purchases by paying on my credit card with cash at any of their ATMs and they allow me to continue shopping even though everything is pending.

Oh, one final question concerning primarily my $500 BOA Cash back secured Mastercard:

This card allows me to pay towards my card, even if I don't have a balance, meaning if my balance is zero and I deposit $200, I now have a credit of $200 plus my original $500 CL, I have never deposited more than $200, but if they allow me to do so with let's say $1K, I'd do all my spending on my BOA card and take advantage of all tht cash back.

What do you think?

[Anonymous]

I never said that, he stated during the video about Cycling that for higher limits, like $10K exmple he used, it could be seen my the bank as money laundering.

[Anonymous]

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@ldkcivilservant wrote:

I am subscribed to 'Ask Sebby' and I don't recall him reffering to that as money laundering.

Personally I don't see how it possibly could be, if it's not explicatly forbade by the T&Cs then it's fair game if not obviously fraudulant.

I never even considered that taking my CFU close to it's limit during the month, and then paying it off before the statement cuts, is anything other than normal behaviour for a credit card. If they aren't to be spent then PIF, then what exactly is the point? I'd just use my debit card.

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That is real dicey to do it. You are providing false information. Yes, maybe the email address is different, or the phone number is a landline instead of your cell number, but when that individual applies for the card, is the SSN different from the person referring? 

It's crazy that the lender doesn't validate the applicant with the cardholder to see if they match. Pretty simple validation. Eventually, they all will validate that info.

I wouldn't do it, unless you like losing your tradeline trying to grab $50 or $100 or whatever. And who knows, they can ban you for a long time.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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I would consider self referrals as fraudulent because one would be falsifying information to a bank for financial gain, although I doubt very much they would prosecute, only close your account. 

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I have never used a referral form (since I don't know anyone else!) but is the information false when you self refer?   If it's you with maybe another (but still your) email/phone for example, it's not false info.   Certainly unethical but not criminal?

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I never tried one of those. Are there disclaimers? Does it ask if you submitting information to the best of your knowlege....? 

Those are intended for accounts for OTHER people. It could be your best friend, your spouse (unless they restrict by household), etc.

A different email/phone won't produce a different SSN at credit app time, so it has nothing to do with email/phone. It's really borderline to consider it fraudulent or not, but I'm sure they won't prosecute over a few hundred dollars.

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I just looked, and all you do is provide a friend's email.   Amex then sends some email, and If they apply for a card and are approved, you get the bonus.   So self-referral you just provide one of your own emails and apply as usual.   So now 100% sure that there is nothing prosecutable in that assuming you fill in the application correctly.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

$45K on groceries, what are you doing feeding the entire Notre Dame football team?

Is that a typo?

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Not a typo.   The groceries bought were thin and plastic and cost $505.95 each!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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I would consider self referrals as fraudulent because one would be falsifying information to a bank for financial gain, although I doubt very much they would prosecute, only close your account. 

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I have never used a referral form (since I don't know anyone else!) but is the information false when you self refer?   If it's you with maybe another (but still your) email/phone for example, it's not false info.   Certainly unethical but not criminal?

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I never tried one of those. Are there disclaimers? Does it ask if you submitting information to the best of your knowlege....? 

Those are intended for accounts for OTHER people. It could be your best friend, your spouse (unless they restrict by household), etc.

A different email/phone won't produce a different SSN at credit app time, so it has nothing to do with email/phone. It's really borderline to consider it fraudulent or not, but I'm sure they won't prosecute over a few hundred dollars.

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I just looked, and all you do is provide a friend's email.   Amex then sends some email, and If they apply for a card and are approved, you get the bonus.   So self-referral you just provide one of your own emails and apply as usual.   So now 100% sure that there is nothing prosecutable in that assuming you fill in the application correctly.

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They won't prosecute for that. Too little amount of money. Once they discover it, they'll shut you down though. Maybe even put you on a black list. Good luck!!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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They won't prosecute for that. Too little amount of money. Once they discover it, they'll shut you down though. Maybe even put you on a black list. Good luck!!

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Probably gone on way too long OT, but....:  I have no intention of trying, it clearly gets you shut down, my whole point is that just like you (correctly) objected to the term money laundering in the original topic, they won't prosecute here NOT because it's too little money, but because there is no criminal offense to prosecute 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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They won't prosecute for that. Too little amount of money. Once they discover it, they'll shut you down though. Maybe even put you on a black list. Good luck!!

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Probably gone on way too long OT, but....:  I have no intention of trying, it clearly gets you shut down, my whole point is that just like you (correctly) objected to the term money laundering in the original topic, they won't prosecute here NOT because it's too little money, but because there is no criminal offense to prosecute 

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We are OT too long, and to close this out, this is what concerns me. I like to err on the side of making sure I don't fall under these definitions:

"According to the First Circuit, the elements of defrauding a financial institution are: (1) the defendant must engage in a scheme or artifice to defraud, or must make false statements or misrepresentations to obtain money from (2) a financial institution and (3) must do so knowingly."

According to the FDIC laws and regulations regarding bank fraud punishment:

Anyone who “knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice”

• To defraud a financial institution; or
• To obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;

faces a fine of up to $1,000,000, and may be imprisoned up to 30 years.

[calyx]

Just a word on cycling - I did it a bunch when I started building because my limits were way lower than my spend;   some cards only let you pay using their site a certain number of times in a specific timeframe, so keep an eye on that.

If you do hit that limit, push a payment from your bank/FI instead of pulling it.