What updates do you hope to see with CSP/CSR revamp?

[wasCB14]

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@coreysw12 wrote:

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@ChargedUp wrote:

I do think it'd be worthwhile to bring Disney back to the travel portal, as well as nix the Disney credit card (which is really a ho-hum value to begin with).

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And I'm sure the Disney card is the driving factor behind their decision to kill Disney from the travel portal. Unfortunately I have a feeling that Chase values the co-branding with Disney more than they value the income that the Disney card itself directly generates for them. It's a very popular card for some reason (probably mostly the Disney graphics printed on the cards), even if it isn't popular here. So I don't see that card going anywhere anytime soon. And unfortunately, as long as that relationship exists, Disney is probably never going to let Chase sell Disney tickets through a 3rd-party OTA (Expedia).

Maybe as a compromise, they could introduce a 25/50% transfer bonus from CSP/CSR Ultimate Rewards to Disney Rewards Dollars (or an equivalent discount on Disney gift cards). I'd be ok with that option.

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The Disneyland pass that I bought in 2017 for $849 was priced at $1,199 just before COVID closures. A 41%+ price increase over approximately three years suggests Disney does not think it needs any help selling tickets, so doesn't want to give third parties a commission on sales.

I'm a "fast rides and food" guy who doesn't really care about merchandise. Inversely, the credit cards seem designed for people who buy a lot of merchandise but very rarely go to the parks. Anyone who goes with any regularity likely has some sort of annual pass...and having the perks of a pass makes the credit cards kind of irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@iced wrote:

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If the SUB is the only way someone can justify $550 in value out of the CSR, then perhaps the CSR isn't the right card for them. If $550 is a hard pill to swallow up front, then perhaps the CSR isn't the right card for them, either.

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I think this ignores that some people, who may well benefit greatly from the card, may have never paid annual fees (or at least a high annual fee) before and need some encouragement to try.   I know that when the CSP waived for the first year (and probably before 5/24) here there was a lot of "try it and see", as that had both a big SUB and no AF for the first year.   I would guess that a fair percentage went on to keep the card.

But..   I don't know what pecentage Chase would be happy with, you obviously don't want too many people "trying", just basically taking the SUB and then cancelling without becoming serious users.

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The waived AF is what lured me into the CSP and UR system, as a previous non AF type of cardholder it gave me that "test run" without feeling I was out anything. Ended up keeping it a couple more years until just recently when my AF came up in April and had no use for the card during these times.  So I can see how waiving the fee could entice some who are on the fence about AF products, though i also see the harm it can cause because it doesn't really "resonate" until the following year. And if they're new to the product it's difficult to understand how to fully utilze said product to maximize benefits.

So with the CSR I would probably never go for, the AF just seems too high for me to confidently get my Money's worth in the benefits as a non heavy Traveler. All those ancillary benfits people take for granted don't work here, there no such thing as door dash Lyft etc. So personally I have to depend on the basic card's rewards structure and maximizing categories. 

[Citylights18]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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The CSR earns 3 cents per dollar spent on travel. One cent is worth one point.

It takes 33% less points to buy travel on the Chase portal with a CSR x1.5. That is 33% off or 33% back that you don't have to spend.

Thus the 3 cents per dollar has 33% more value (4 cents per dollar)

If the CSR divisor was x2.0 travel would be 50% off and the 3 cents per dollar now worth 4.5.

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In percentages there are always two approaches, basically (New-Old)/Old   and (New-Old)/New

These lead to the 50% vs 33% confusion, a 50% increase in the value of the unit leads to a 33% reduction in cost when paying with the inflated unit.   But your way is just not a meaningful way to do the calculation.   Consider this approach.

Instead of having a destination in mind, I am looking to see how I can spend my 100,000 UR.   Looking it up using my CFU, I have choices of flights that cost up to $1000.   If I transfer those points to the CSR, and look again, I find I have choices up to $1,500.   Which implies that th value has gone up 50%!

And now suppose that Chase finally expands Pay Yourself Back to allow you redeem the URs for cash at the enhanced rate.    Doing it with the CFU, I can cash out 100K UR for $1000.   Doing it on CSR would return $1,500      Would you still maintain that was a 33% improvement?

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That is different and actually a 50% increase.

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Not different. Accurate. 50% "extra value" through CSR when buying the travel through the Chase Travel Portal vs CFF or CFU. 

Might be time to take a break and consider what LTL and KiB have been outlining. 

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The difference between paying full rate and a 50% discount.

Redemtion is 1.0 ccp. Purchase price is $100. 100 divided by 1 is $100 dollars.

Redemption is 2.0 ccp. Purchase price is $100. 100 divided by 2 is $50 dollars (50% discount).

Redemption is 1.5 ccp. Purchas price is $100. 100 divided by 1.5 is $66.66 dollars (33.33% discount)

This is how cards like WoH can give 4.0 or 5.0 type redemptions. 4.0 ccp is 75% off while 5.0 is 80% off so its a declining advantage and they are still selling you the room at 20,000 or 30,000 points.

Going back to the CSP at 1.25 ccp redemption compared to the CSR at 1.5, the discount is only 13.33% more with a CSR. To break even with the effective differnce of $155 between the two cards it would require spending $155 divided by .1333 ($1165) a year through the portal. I would argue regardless of a 1.25 or 1.5 redemption you can do better by trucking the points over to Hyatt or Southwest. There is also a question of getting the absolute lowest price on the Chase portal, though with that regard they are pretty good. I trust them more for flights than I do hotel deals where the OTAs have some specials.

[Anonymous]

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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The CSR earns 3 cents per dollar spent on travel. One cent is worth one point.

It takes 33% less points to buy travel on the Chase portal with a CSR x1.5. That is 33% off or 33% back that you don't have to spend.

Thus the 3 cents per dollar has 33% more value (4 cents per dollar)

If the CSR divisor was x2.0 travel would be 50% off and the 3 cents per dollar now worth 4.5.

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In percentages there are always two approaches, basically (New-Old)/Old   and (New-Old)/New

These lead to the 50% vs 33% confusion, a 50% increase in the value of the unit leads to a 33% reduction in cost when paying with the inflated unit.   But your way is just not a meaningful way to do the calculation.   Consider this approach.

Instead of having a destination in mind, I am looking to see how I can spend my 100,000 UR.   Looking it up using my CFU, I have choices of flights that cost up to $1000.   If I transfer those points to the CSR, and look again, I find I have choices up to $1,500.   Which implies that th value has gone up 50%!

And now suppose that Chase finally expands Pay Yourself Back to allow you redeem the URs for cash at the enhanced rate.    Doing it with the CFU, I can cash out 100K UR for $1000.   Doing it on CSR would return $1,500      Would you still maintain that was a 33% improvement?

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That is different and actually a 50% increase.

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The difference between paying full rate and a 50% discount.

Redemtion is 1.0 ccp. Purchase price is $100. 100 divided by 1 is $100 dollars.

Redemption is 2.0 ccp. Purchase price is $100. 100 divided by 2 is $50 dollars (50% discount).

Redemption is 1.5 ccp. Purchas price is $100. 100 divided by 1.5 is $66.66 dollars (33.33% discount)

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Looking at how many points to be used to buy a $100 ticket, yes, you need 33.33% less if the points are worth 1.5cpp vs 1cpp, but that's BECAUSE they are worth 50% more.    NumberNeeded=Price/ValuePerPoint     So Price/(3/2*ValuePerPoint)= (2/3)Price/ValuePerPoint = (2/3)NumberNeeded.

If the ValuePerPoint really was 33% more, then the reduction is 25%.   So I think your language is really confounding two things.

Especially as you agree that if I was able to cash out the points, that really would be a 50% increase!

[Citylights18]

No as they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

1000 points cashed out at 1.5 is 1500 points, 50% increase

Travel costing 1,000 points redemed at 1.5 is 1000/1.5, 666 (a 33% discount).

When you're on the Chase Portal buying travel you're getting discount on the price, not a cash out. Two different situatons. Take a look at the difference in points on the Chase Portal for travel and see if it takes half as many points to redeem through a CSR. It doesn't so its not half off at 1.5. Then if follows further that 3.0x travel is like 4.0 on the Chase Portal because its 33% less points used.

I communicted this to the points guy numerous times already. This is something I've been aware of for a long time.

[Anonymous]

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@Citylights18 wrote:

No as they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

1000 points cashed out at 1.5 is 1500 points, 50% increase

Travel costing 1,000 points redemed at 1.5 is 1000/1.5, 666 (a 33% discount).

When you're on the Chase Portal buying travel you're getting discount on the price, not a cash out. Two different situatons. Take a look at the difference in points on the Chase Portal for travel and see if it takes half as many points to redeem through a CSR. It doesn't so its not half off at 1.5. Then if follows further that 3.0x travel is like 4.0 on the Chase Portal because its 33% less points used.

I communicted this to the points guy numerous times already. This is something I've been aware of for a long time.

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Well, as I have said it's an inherent fact about percentages,  and the difference is just in the view.   Again, I have a pool of 100,000 UR.   I can use them logging in with my CFU to buy a $1000 airfare.   Or, I can login with the CSR and buy a $1,500 airfare.   Which appears to be similar to the cashout scenario, and my "buying power" has increased by 50%   Your view is "Oh, but you have paid $1000 for a $1,500 fare which is 33% reduction" but that is not the only way to view it.

[wasCB14]

@Citylights18 

If you're still making this argument, you might consider and reply to the "1 UR house" example I posed?

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/What-updates-do-you-hope-to-see-with-CSP-CSR-revamp/m-...

[CaptJOB]

Gonna ignore the six vs half dozen conversation that's still going on and say that as long as they don't kill the points transfer between the no fee cards and Sapphire products I don't think there's any need to change the earning structure other than maybe matching the 5x earn on travel portal purchases. I've earned 63k URs across all the cards for the year on top of Doordash and Lyft benefits(San Francisco means these are valuable for me).

Still a really valuable card for their target demographic who I assume don't even care about these no fee cards to maximize earning or paying a $250 annual fee.

[Citylights18]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Citylights18 wrote:

No as they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

1000 points cashed out at 1.5 is 1500 points, 50% increase

Travel costing 1,000 points redemed at 1.5 is 1000/1.5, 666 (a 33% discount).

When you're on the Chase Portal buying travel you're getting discount on the price, not a cash out. Two different situatons. Take a look at the difference in points on the Chase Portal for travel and see if it takes half as many points to redeem through a CSR. It doesn't so its not half off at 1.5. Then if follows further that 3.0x travel is like 4.0 on the Chase Portal because its 33% less points used.

I communicted this to the points guy numerous times already. This is something I've been aware of for a long time.

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Well, as I have said it's an inherent fact about percentages,  and the difference is just in the view.   Again, I have a pool of 100,000 UR.   I can use them logging in with my CFU to buy a $1000 airfare.   Or, I can login with the CSR and buy a $1,500 airfare.   Which appears to be similar to the cashout scenario, and my "buying power" has increased by 50%   Your view is "Oh, but you have paid $1000 for a $1,500 fare which is 33% reduction" but that is not the only way to view it.

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Think about the RTR. There are two main components to it.

Points (credit card, shopping portal)

Discount (sale, gift card)

RTR then is Points+Discount. I get 3ccp shopping portal, put it on a 3 ccp credit card and then a 10% discount on a gift card that is a 16% total RTR.

If you paid $90 for a $100 gift card its a 10% discount. Nobody says their $90 dollars are worth 1.11 over at the gift card shop though the $90 dollars allowed them to buy $100 dollars with of gift cards. The reverse way of looking at it is that your points are worth 25% or 50% more on the Chase portal. The normal way to look at it is what was the discount on the fare and when you divide a $100 purchase by 1.5 its 33% off.

[K-in-Boston]

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@CaptJOB wrote:

Gonna ignore the six vs half dozen conversation that's still going on

I think you mean the 3+3=6 vs 6-3=0.33 conversation?  All I know is I am glad that with the 99.99999% discount, URs are now worth a million dollars each.  😂