AT&T/DirecTV Unauthorized Credit-Inquiry

[Anonymous]

If you don't mind... I'd like to know how you make out. 

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@rooeez wrote:

Glad you got resolution. I actually just got a couple of letters regarding my online dispute submission to the link previously shared.  I have to wait for the inquiries to be removed, but I have the letters if they aren't in a timely manner.

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[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@marty56 wrote:

Did you do anything to cause ATT to pull your CR.  I ask this because they could potentialy pull your CR if you are looking to add or upgrade services and or devices.  Also it could be the first sign of ID theft.

No approved reason for AT&T to inquire.  I monitor my credit-report regularly… Hopefully this is not ID theft related. 

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Hi PA_FICO!  I am curious whether you could circle back to Marty's earlier question.  (See above.)

You responded to him that they didn't have an "approved" reason for pulling your credit.  That might mean that you hadn't given your approval for the pull, which we totally realize.  But Marty may have been just trying to suss out what triggered them to do a pull of your reports.  Specifically he asks:

Were you looking to add or upgrade services and or devices?

This could be true whether you had service with them now or whether you did not.  It also could be as little as a phone conversation where you were just doing information gathering or price-comparison shopping (between AT&T vs. Comcast say) -- i.e. just the most general solicitation of information and not telling them that you were strongly interested in them.

Don't get me wrong -- I am not saying that AT&T would be morally right in doing a credit pull for someone checking prices.  I am just trying to figure out whether you had any interaction with AT&T whatsoever in the 60 days before the inquiry that could have triggered it.  And if so, can you tell us what that might have been?

PS.  Happy you have gotten the result you wanted.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@marty56 wrote:

Did you do anything to cause ATT to pull your CR.  I ask this because they could potentialy pull your CR if you are looking to add or upgrade services and or devices.  Also it could be the first sign of ID theft.

No approved reason for AT&T to inquire.  I monitor my credit-report regularly… Hopefully this is not ID theft related. 

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Hi PA_FICO!  I am curious whether you could circle back to Marty's earlier question.  (See above.)

You responded to him that they didn't have an "approved" reason for pulling your credit.  That might mean that you hadn't given your approval for the pull, which we totally realize.  But Marty may have been just trying to suss out what triggered them to do a pull of your reports.  Specifically he asks:

Were you looking to add or upgrade services and or devices?

This could be true whether you had service with them now or whether you did not.  It also could be as little as a phone conversation where you were just doing information gathering or price-comparison shopping (between AT&T vs. Comcast say) -- i.e. just the most general solicitation of information and not telling them that you were strongly interested in them.

Don't get me wrong -- I am not saying that AT&T would be morally right in doing a credit pull for someone checking prices.  I am just trying to figure out whether you had any interaction with AT&T whatsoever in the 60 days before the inquiry that could have triggered it.  And if so, can you tell us what that might have been?

PS.  Happy you have gotten the result you wanted.

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Question(s) received.  To answer… I will circle-back prior to start of this thread… Which was a hard-inquiry by Direct-TV.   

It began with an online chat with Direct-TV.  What I learned later was a subsidiary of AT&T... Also-Known-As AT&T/DirecTV. 

While chatting with DirecTV about pricing… The subject of installation fees was introduced.  I was informed installation fees, or the waiver of, was dependent on my credit-history.  In the chat/transcript I was very specific I was only approving a soft-inquiry.  While chatting… I received an email from Equifax that DirecTV has performed a hard-inquiry.  And here’s where it started

Interestingly, after the first 48 hours… The DirecTV hard-inquiry disappeared.  Replaced with a hard-inquiry from AT&T of the same date.

The first hurtle was to not accept AT&T’s insistence they had no control on what appeared on my credit-report…  The old D-ny, D-fer, D-lay tactic.  Debunked this and had AT&T change the hard-inquiry to a soft-inquiry on my Equifax report.   

Returning to the beginning of this thread…

[Anonymous]

Very helpful!

A fair takeaway for other folks reading this may be that, when dealing with AT&T and/or DirectTV, be prepared that they will do a hard pull, even if the rep says it will be soft.  Reps are notoriously ill informed about what their organization will actually do when it is credit related: sad but true.  Dozens of other people have had this experience with AT&T or Direct TV and posted on the forums about it -- sometimes there is a promise the pull will be soft, sometimes the consumer is surprised because their was no explicit agreement, no SSN given, etc.

People also have this experience with Verizon, Comcast, etc.

It looks to me like people have a few options when shopping for products like this:

     * Refuse to give the company your name or address and certainly not SSN.  This way the company is incapable of doing a credit pull.  You can give them a bogus address if they insist they need it to see what neighborhood you are in.

     * Be ok with a hard pull being done, though feel free to hope for the best.

     * Be prepared for a long fight that lasts months and many many hours of your time to get the HP removed -- and even then you might not succeed.

[rooeez]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If you don't mind... I'd like to know how you make out. 

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@rooeez wrote:

Glad you got resolution. I actually just got a couple of letters regarding my online dispute submission to the link previously shared.  I have to wait for the inquiries to be removed, but I have the letters if they aren't in a timely manner.

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I will report back if/when the hard inquiries are removed. I would have just submitted the dispute online and uploaded the letters for faster resolution, but it seems Equifax's dispute site is down... of course. 

Just to be clear, the inquries on my report did not stem from any action on my part. I do not have DirecTV/AT&T service of any kind and had no need fo rnew service or any change/upgrade.

[Anonymous]

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@rooeez wrote:

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Just to be clear, the inquries on my report did not stem from any action on my part. I do not have DirecTV/AT&T service of any kind and had no need fo rnew service or any change/upgrade.

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That's really interesting -- and should be worrisome for you, as it suggests the likelihood of identity theft.  The big issue is that you are on a bad guy's list of people to steal from.... not the scoring impact of the 1-2 inquiries themselves.

Has anyone made any progress on the ID theft?  (E.g. police, etc?)

Your situation is a bit different from our OP's, since we know why AT&T/DTV did the inquiry in his case.

[MakingProgress]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Very helpful!

A fair takeaway for other folks reading this may be that, when dealing with AT&T and/or DirectTV, be prepared that they will do a hard pull, even if the rep says it will be soft.  Reps are notoriously ill informed about what their organization will actually do when it is credit related: sad but true.  Dozens of other people have had this experience with AT&T or Direct TV and posted on the forums about it -- sometimes there is a promise the pull will be soft, sometimes the consumer is surprised because their was no explicit agreement, no SSN given, etc.

People also have this experience with Verizon, Comcast, etc.

It looks to me like people have a few options when shopping for products like this:

     * Refuse to give the company your name or address and certainly not SSN.  This way the company is incapable of doing a credit pull.  You can give them a bogus address if they insist they need it to see what neighborhood you are in.

     * Be ok with a hard pull being done, though feel free to hope for the best.

     * Be prepared for a long fight that lasts months and many many hours of your time to get the HP removed -- and even then you might not succeed.

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OK I work for a big bad cable company.   We are told it is a soft pull, but I have never found that in writing anywhere.   Therefore I tell customers I belive it is a soft pull, but don't gaurentee it. That goes right to the comment about reps being "notoriously ill informed about what their organization will actually do when it is credit related"

Not sure about other companies, but if I can't get a name and address I can't give you an accurate quote.   I need to start an order to see what is available at your location.  It can be different from one address to the next depending on how our marketing department has identified your address.   So if you don't give me the info I need you I will quote you at the worst offer out there not the best one you might qualify for.

We don't do any pull until we are ready to finalize an order and then I need either your ssn or dob to to it.   The pull will determine if you need to pay your first month and any install fees or if I can bill you for those.  Saying it determines you need to pay an install sounds fishy to me. 

[RobertEG]

For a discussion of when a business obtains permissible purpose, the FTC has specifically addressed the issue of automobile dealers accessing a consumer's credit report in a February 11, 1998 advisory opinion as follows:

"1. Section 604(a)(3)(F) permits CRAs to provide consumer reports to any party who has a "legitimate business need for the information in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer." You ask whether this provision allows a dealer to obtain a consumer report on a person who "comes to an automobile dealership and requests information" from a salesman about one or more automobiles. In our view it does not, because a request for general information about products and prices offered does not involve a business transaction initiated by the consumer.

 "More generally, you ask "when is the beginning of a business transaction" initiated by the consumer? In responding to this question, it is important to note that Section 604(a)(3)(F) limits this "business need" permissible purpose to transactions (i) that are "initiated" by the consumer and (ii) where the seller has a "legitimate business need" for the information. The staff's view is that an automobile dealer may obtain a report only in those circumstances in which the consumer clearly understands that he or she is initiating the purchase or lease of a vehicle and the seller has a legitimate business need for the consumer report information in order to complete the transaction.

"For example, a consumer who asks a dealer questions about prices and financing is not necessarily indicating an intent to purchase or lease a vehicle from that particular dealer. Nor does the dealer have a "legitimate" business need for a consumer report in this situation. The consumer may simply be comparison shopping. In such a situation, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a consumer report. If the dealer would like to see a consumer's credit report before answering general questions about the availability of financing, this must be explained to the consumer and written permission must be obtained. In the same way, a request to "test drive" a vehicle does not indicate an intent to initiate the purchase or lease of the vehicle. Accordingly, if a consumer asks to test drive a vehicle, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a report.

 "Only in those circumstances where it is clear both to the consumer and to the dealer that the consumer is actually initiating the purchase or lease of a specific vehicle and, in addition, the dealer has a legitimate business need for consumer report information may the dealer obtain a report without written permission. In this regard, we note that obtaining information for negotiation purposes does not constitute a "legitimate" business need. The dealer must have a specific need for the information directly related to the completion of the transaction. For example, a dealer may obtain a report, if one is necessary, in order to arrange financing requested by the consumer.  The dealer may also obtain a report to check a consumer's creditworthiness when the consumer presents a personal check to pay for the vehicle. By contrast, a permissible purpose would not arise if a consumer intends to pay by cash.”

[Anonymous]

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@RobertEG wrote:

For a discussion of when a business obtains permissible purpose, the FTC has specifically addressed the issue of automobile dealers accessing a consumer's credit report in a February 11, 1998 advisory opinion as follows:

"1. Section 604(a)(3)(F) permits CRAs to provide consumer reports to any party who has a "legitimate business need for the information in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer." You ask whether this provision allows a dealer to obtain a consumer report on a person who "comes to an automobile dealership and requests information" from a salesman about one or more automobiles. In our view it does not, because a request for general information about products and prices offered does not involve a business transaction initiated by the consumer.

 "More generally, you ask "when is the beginning of a business transaction" initiated by the consumer? In responding to this question, it is important to note that Section 604(a)(3)(F) limits this "business need" permissible purpose to transactions (i) that are "initiated" by the consumer and (ii) where the seller has a "legitimate business need" for the information. The staff's view is that an automobile dealer may obtain a report only in those circumstances in which the consumer clearly understands that he or she is initiating the purchase or lease of a vehicle and the seller has a legitimate business need for the consumer report information in order to complete the transaction.

"For example, a consumer who asks a dealer questions about prices and financing is not necessarily indicating an intent to purchase or lease a vehicle from that particular dealer. Nor does the dealer have a "legitimate" business need for a consumer report in this situation. The consumer may simply be comparison shopping. In such a situation, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a consumer report. If the dealer would like to see a consumer's credit report before answering general questions about the availability of financing, this must be explained to the consumer and written permission must be obtained. In the same way, a request to "test drive" a vehicle does not indicate an intent to initiate the purchase or lease of the vehicle. Accordingly, if a consumer asks to test drive a vehicle, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a report.

 "Only in those circumstances where it is clear both to the consumer and to the dealer that the consumer is actually initiating the purchase or lease of a specific vehicle and, in addition, the dealer has a legitimate business need for consumer report information may the dealer obtain a report without written permission. In this regard, we note that obtaining information for negotiation purposes does not constitute a "legitimate" business need. The dealer must have a specific need for the information directly related to the completion of the transaction. For example, a dealer may obtain a report, if one is necessary, in order to arrange financing requested by the consumer.  The dealer may also obtain a report to check a consumer's creditworthiness when the consumer presents a personal check to pay for the vehicle. By contrast, a permissible purpose would not arise if a consumer intends to pay by cash.”

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I don't read if they are talking about a hard or soft inquiry?