AZEO with 2 cc?

[SouthJamaica]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Ok then. I'll show 0 on one of my cards. Question is - should I show 0 on the same card each time or I can rotate them?

I've got my 2nd just recently (June) so I would like to wait 4-5 months before applying for the 3rd one.

---

1. Yes you can rotate them.

2. If you don't need a third card, please don't apply for one. The difference between your scores with 1/3 cards reporting a balance and 1/2 cards reporting a balance is going to be zero in some scoring models, and insignificant in others. So it isn't worth it.

[SouthJamaica]

---

@wasCB14 wrote:

---

@HeavenOhio wrote:

By definition, you can't do AZEO (all zero except one) with two positive balances AZEO entails leaving a tiny balance on one card (at least $5, but not much more) with the rest reporting zero.

That said, it's very common for one to achieve the same score as one's AZEO score with two or more cards reporting positive balances. That varies from score to score and profile to profile.

For scoring purposes, there's no need to rotate how your cards report. Do what's convenient for you.

With two cards, one should report a positive balance and the other should report zero. All cards at zero will result in a fairly substantial penalty. It's important to realize, however, that the penalty is temporary. There's no need to panic unless an important application for credit is in the immediate future.

---

I heard a while back that if a card has had 0 balances for 6-12 months or whatever, scores could suffer if it was treated as "inactive"...even if the account was remaining open.

Not that I'm an expert on scoring. I'm an "All Zero Except Eight" practitioner (no denials since I first got a FICO score 5 years ago, though) and treat an 800 FICO as an indication I should get another bonus.

---

Not true. I have cards which have reported zero balances for as many as 4 1/2 years, and none of them has ever been treated as inactive. It can be discerned from the credit report that an account is active even though the reported balance is zero.

[Anonymous]

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

2. If you don't need a third card, please don't apply for one. The difference between your scores with 1/3 cards reporting a balance and 1/2 cards reporting a balance is going to be zero in some scoring models, and insignificant in others. So it isn't worth it.

---

Great advice above.  The whole "you need at least 3 cards for maximum Fico scoring benefit" argument that you hear on this forum all the time would have one thinking that scoring benefit of 3+ verses 2 is actually significant, when it's anything but if you actually dig around and quantify it with data.  The gains realized, if any, are insignificant like SJ stated.

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

2. If you don't need a third card, please don't apply for one. The difference between your scores with 1/3 cards reporting a balance and 1/2 cards reporting a balance is going to be zero in some scoring models, and insignificant in others. So it isn't worth it.

---

Great advice above.  The whole "you need at least 3 cards for maximum Fico scoring benefit" argument that you hear on this forum all the time would have one thinking that scoring benefit of 3+ verses 2 is actually significant, when it's anything but if you actually dig around and quantify it with data.  The gains realized, if any, are insignificant like SJ stated.

---

So... you need three to do AZEO but adding that third card won’t make a difference... sounds like AZEO is a load of crap for anything except mortgage and auto after all. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

---

So... you need three to do AZEO but adding that third card won’t make a difference... sounds like AZEO is a load of crap for anything except mortgage and auto after all. 🤷‍♂️ 

---

1. No one said you need 3 cards to do AZEO (you don't).
2. No one said adding a third card won't make a difference, simply that the difference is overstated on this forum.

Have you ever tested the difference in your Fico scores in going from (say) 25% of your cards with a balance to 50% of them with a balance?  If so, what was it?  If not, I suggest you try.  The difference on my Fico 8 scores is 0 points EX, 4 points TU and 6 points EQ.  In my book, insignificant differences.

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

---

So... you need three to do AZEO but adding that third card won’t make a difference... sounds like AZEO is a load of crap for anything except mortgage and auto after all. 🤷‍♂️ 

---

1. No one said you need 3 cards to do AZEO (you don't).
2. No one said adding a third card won't make a difference, simply that the difference is overstated on this forum.

Have you ever tested the difference in your Fico scores in going from (say) 25% of your cards with a balance to 50% of them with a balance?  If so, what was it?  If not, I suggest you try.  The difference on my Fico 8 scores is 0 points EX, 4 points TU and 6 points EQ.  In my book, insignificant differences.

---

I don’t get any difference whatsoever going to AZEO on my FICO 8s and I lose 4-8 points depending on the bureau for crossing 1/2 with a balance, with Equifax dinging me when I cross 1/3 with a balance. What I can say is that when I added my third card, my score rapidly went up from the 630-650 range on all three bureaus to 650-680 when I checked three months after adding that third account and I didn’t cross any utilization thresholds either (it was a $1K card, my other two were $2K and $6250 with about $300 reporting a month on the $6250 card and PIF) so for my profile? It made a huge difference. 

[Anonymous]

What sectors of the Fico pie (scoring ingredients) do you attribute those score gains to?  I mean, it's not like there's a known over/under of 2.5 CCs that when crossed always results in gains.  What I mean is that "number of revolvers" is not a Fico scoring factor.  Can number of revolvers impact other sectors of the Fico pie?  Absolutely... number of cards/accounts with a balance, utilization, etc.  IMO however, the scores gains that your referenced being a "huge difference" didn't necessarily (and likely didn't) come from the addition of a 3rd card.  You referenced a period of 3 months, where a lot can happen over that time period.  For example, your AoOA could have crossed a threshold just to provide one example.  I'm just curious how exactly you believe that adding a third card increased your Fico scores some 20-30 points in terms of score ingredients. 

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

What sectors of the Fico pie (scoring ingredients) do you attribute those score gains to?  I mean, it's not like there's a known over/under of 2.5 CCs that when crossed always results in gains.  What I mean is that "number of revolvers" is not a Fico scoring factor.  Can number of revolvers impact other sectors of the Fico pie?  Absolutely... number of cards/accounts with a balance, utilization, etc.  IMO however, the scores gains that your referenced being a "huge difference" didn't necessarily (and likely didn't) come from the addition of a 3rd card.  You referenced a period of 3 months, where a lot can happen over that time period.  For example, your AoOA could have crossed a threshold just to provide one example.  I'm just curious how exactly you believe that adding a third card increased your Fico scores some 20-30 points in terms of score ingredients. 

---

I can’t quantify it because back then, I wasn’t tracking like I do now. What I can say though is that a significant change occurred in that time period while I literally have none from AZEO. My point is that none of these actions have guaranteed point gains or losses unlike something like adding an installment loan if you don’t have one which is universal because of credit mix. There really isn’t a right answer when it comes to adding a third account because it’s another factor that depends on the profile. Lots of us have found benefit so it seems hard to believe it’s a myth. 

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I heard a lot about AZEO with 3 and more cards. But does that make sense with only 2?

---

I just tested this last month. It absolutely can have a significant effect. TU 8 +14, EQ 8 +19, and TU AUTO 9 +27, among many others.

myFICO provides access to 28 FICO scores and 22 of them went up anywhere from +2 to +27 points.

Here is a table that shows changes to all of those scores, with the score factor reasons listed before and after on every single score.

The 'too many accounts with balances' reason still shows up, but it moves down in the list on many of the scores.

[Anonymous]

“(at least $5, but not much more)”

Where the does the idea that the one card needs to report a small balance come from? ( emphasis on small) The upper limit could theoretically be hundreds or thousands of dollars as long as it’s below the thresholds it makes no difference how much it is. The only requirement is that it is large enough to not get rounded to zero. That’s where the $5 comes from. But the “not much more” is as overstated as AZEO’s impact.