Citibank trended data Dis

[Thomas_Thumb]

The last time I opened a new revolving account was Nov 2011. First time I saw my Fico 8 score was Jan 2014. Score was 850 then but my newest account had already aged past 2 years.

IIRC, Fico 8 850s have been mentioned by atleast 3 posters with a revolving CC under 12 months age. I believe there have been 850s reported on each of the CRAs.

[BrutalBodyShots]

Good to know. I'm going to try digging a little to find those data points. If you happen to recall any threads where they may be and can share them, that would be appreciated.

[radiofrequencies]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

If a balance was carried over, there is a 99% chance minimum payment will not report as a whole $ amount when interest is applied. So, minimum due can be a very good indicator of transactor/revolver especially when evaluated over time - so long as cents are not rounded to whole $ before reporting.

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Minimum payments show up on credit reports as whole numbers. My Citi card always has a minimum payment of $41 but I recently had a statement balance of $21.49 and my minimum payment was $21.49. The scheduled payment amount on my credit reports was $21. 

Even though the cents aren't reported, transactor vs. revolver behavior can still be inferred by the "scheduled payment" field once the card has multiple months reported. If someone pays their statement balance every month, their scheduled payment will be the same amount month to month. If they make a partial payment and carry a balance over to the next billing cycle, the scheduled payment will increase. 

[NoHardLimits]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

The last time I opened a new revolving account was Nov 2011. First time I saw my Fico 8 score was Jan 2014. Score was 850 then but my newest account had already aged past 2 years.

IIRC, Fico 8 850s have been mentioned by atleast 3 posters with a revolving CC under 12 months age. I believe there have been 850s reported on each of the CRAs.

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I also have FICO 8 data beginning in 2014.  For me personally, I have not seen 850 while on a "new revolver" scorecard.  The highest new revolver score I've been able to achieve is 844 on EX.  I have been able to achieve 850 with "no open loan".

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@NoHardLimits wrote:

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The highest new revolver score I've been able to achieve is 844 on EX.  I have been able to achieve 850 with "no open loan".

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That's interesting, @NoHardLimits, as EX should be the thoughest bureau to grab an 850 on since EX is bulletproof to AWB%. Where TU/EQ scores can be optimized via AZEO, that has no impact on EX. When you were at 844 on EX8 on your New Revolver scorecard, what was your AWB%? 

I'm currently at 850 EQ8, 840 TU8 and 836 EX8 on a New Revolver scorecard. I'm not at AZEO or optimzed, but I'm not far off from it.

[AndySoCal]

Historically Fannie Mae is the one who asked the credit bureaus for the trended data. Specifically Fannie Mae wanted to know how a consumer managed credit card accounts.

https://nationalmortgageprofessional.com/news/57862/fannie-mae-begin-requiring-trended-credit-data-j... 

This will give the reason for trended data.

[NoHardLimits]

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

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@NoHardLimits wrote:

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The highest new revolver score I've been able to achieve is 844 on EX.  I have been able to achieve 850 with "no open loan".

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That's interesting, @NoHardLimits, as EX should be the thoughest bureau to grab an 850 on since EX is bulletproof to AWB%. Where TU/EQ scores can be optimized via AZEO, that has no impact on EX. When you were at 844 on EX8 on your New Revolver scorecard, what was your AWB%? 

I'm currently at 850 EQ8, 840 TU8 and 836 EX8 on a New Revolver scorecard. I'm not at AZEO or optimzed, but I'm not far off from it.

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For my most recent F8 844 "new revolver" score card on EX:

newest revolver was 9 months old

accounts with balances was 5 of 12 (42%)

aggregate balance reported was $1508 (1% util)

[AndySoCal]

The result of the dispute was their credit reporting was accurate and the dispute comment would added the account in dispute would be added and I could add my statement to why.  The implication  was the dispute comment would remain after the dispute was completed. I responded I would drop the dispute and what you had chosen to report was accurate.

If  you truly want to understand trended data you need to know why Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac asked the credit bureaus to provide them with that data.  There is link earlier in this thread related to that. 

Citibank going forward the card is locked and a zero balance. The card will remain that way for the foreseeable future.  All rewards points have been converted to cash and has been transferred to my checking account. At some point in time I will request a credit limit decrease to 8000 to reflect 3% credit utilization if I use the card again.

Also, I if apply for credit in the future I will ask the lender on who they report the credit information ( Actual Payment Amount). My preference is lenders that report that field.

[radiofrequencies]

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@AndySoCal wrote:

The result of the dispute was their credit reporting was accurate and the dispute comment would added the account in dispute would be added and I could add my statement to why.  The implication  was the dispute comment would remain after the dispute was completed. I responded I would drop the dispute and what you had chosen to report was accurate.

If  you truly want to understand trended data you need to know why Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac asked the credit bureaus to provide them with that data.  There is link earlier in this thread related to that. 

Citibank going forward the card is locked and a zero balance. The card will remain that way for the foreseeable future.  All rewards points have been converted to cash and has been transferred to my checking account. At some point in time I will request a credit limit decrease to 8000 to reflect 3% credit utilization if I use the card again.

Also, I if apply for credit in the future I will ask the lender on who they report the credit information ( Actual Payment Amount). My preference is lenders that report that field.

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Do you think your FICO 10T and VantageScore 4.0 scores, the models that use trended data, would be higher if all accounts reported actual payment amounts? I don't think that is the case. Those models are able to determine your trend by looking at aggregate utilization and the scheduled payment field. When an algorithm or human reviews your credit reports, they are able to tell if you carry balances using the scheduled payment field. Fannie Mae wants access to actual payment amount to use in their Desktop Underwriter product, but it isn't necessary for assessing your creditworthiness.
 
If your scheduled payment is same low amount every month, then you pay off your statement balances in full. As long as you are letting your statement balances report and not paying them down before your statements are generated, any process that reviews your credit report will know your monthly spend. Those that practice AZEO are hiding their monthly spend and making it look like they barely use their cards. Some banks have chosen not to report the actual payment made because they felt it gave other banks a competitive advantage. For example, if someone practices AZEO and the actual payment amount is reported, lenders are able to see how profitable that customer is and try to poach them through targeted offers.
 
Since you are letting your statement balances report and then paying your statement balances in full, I don't see what you're missing out on when a creditor chooses not to report actual payment amounts. I also don't understand why you would decide to cease using a card, one that you previously found value in using, just because actual payment amounts aren't reported. If all lenders stopped reporting actual payment amounts, would you stop using credit cards altogether?

[AndySoCal]

@radiofrequencies @I have seven credit cards  and six them report actual payment amount. For me Citibank is the only one that does not.  This is no surprise due the CFPB report see link below

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/why-the-largest-credit-card-companies-are-suppressing-... 

In December my FICO  8 score versus Vantage 4.0 the Vantage was was higher by 15 to 20 points.  Now the difference is Vantage Score is 5 points higher possible cause is FICO 8 score has not inquires the Vantage score 4.0 bureau has one inquiry. As to your question if all of my cards reported the actual payment amount would my score higher I do not know and have no firm basis to answer that question.

One test will be when Citi reports a zero balance and a zero actual payment made does that change the score.

The purpose Fannie Mae asked the credit bureaus for the credit trended data is to gain insight  as to how the consumer manages their credit cards.  This gives Fannie Mae a way to check does the balance in month 1 and the actual payment amount in month 2 match. This works if the balance reported is the statement balance and not a balance on a certain date. In cases where they are both zero does this mean that the card was used and paid before thecstatment date or not used at all. You are correct the data is available to the underwriting engine to use. If it is being used and its impact I cannot say for certain.  But question would remain why would they ask for the data and not use it.

Any card that I am not actively using as a rule I will freeze the card. I did not use the card during the dispute. I will keep it locked to give me time to think how I want to move forward with this card. 

Edited to add

If all lenders stopped reporting actual payment amount would I stop using credits?  The answer is no. I do not like to carry much cash plus a debit card is linked to the checking account. I do not want that bridge  to my checking out where hackers can possibly get the card number.etc.