Collections Restrictions: OC vs. Debt Collector

[Underh20]

It's pretty clear what restrictions have been placed on a debt collector when attemtping to collect a debt, but what about when the person collecting the debt is the original creditor?  Can the OC do pretty much whatever they want when collecting a debt?

Also, does anybody know if AmEx handles their own collections internally?  On one individual's credit report I have seen an inquiry from AmEx, but the address given seems strange.  When you Google the address, the whole office building seems to be filled with debt collection agencies.  Yet the number called claims they are AmEx.  Is it possible they do outsource collections to a third party, but that the debt collector still misleadingly uses the AmEx name?

[Anonymous]

No restrictions are set forth on the OC or their internal collections department,  only third party CAs.  So yes, they can basically do what ever they want as far as how often they call, time of day etc.

Anything is possible.  But if they do outsource to a true third party and they use the OC name it is illegal.

[DI]

If a collection account is held by a creditor's inhouse collections they still have to follow the FDCPA.  I dealt with an inhouse CA over the summer.  I treated them just like an outside collection agency. 

Message Edited by DI on 09-09-2009 08:04 AM

[Anonymous]

Only to a point.  If the OC has an inhouse collections, you can not DV them because it goes to the OC address, they do not have to follow the rules for how often they can call.

[Underh20]

Any method you can think of to determine whether the collection people are actually the OC or a debt collector?

When speaking with AmEx they let slip that the collections people were a third party enterprise.  But then the collection people say they are AmEx. 

Anybody have experience with a collection agent at:

7171 MERCY RD      
OMAHA, NE 68106  

[Anonymous]

There are several CAs associated with that address.  One is West Assest Management, Suite 100, another is Omnunim Worldwide Inc, Suite 250.

[Anonymous]

I think I see where you are going with this.  It would be nice if you could get these particular debt collectors, whoever they are, to abide by FDCPA.  It somehow does not seem fair that OCs, when performing exactly the functions of CAs, are not required to abide by the same rules just because they are the OC.

But I have a feeling that the question will not be so much "who" is collecting on the debt, but rather the issues of ownership and assignment of the debt.  If Amex still owns the debt, and has not officially assigned the debt to a CA to handle, then you're still dealing with an OC.  Even if they hire a CA, or individuals from a CA to do their collection work (and set them up in a sham office with "AmEx" on the door), if they don't actually do the usual assignment of debt to the CA, then I think you're out of luck with getting them to play the CA rules.

It seems shady, and it seems like they're deliberately trying to get around playing by the CA rules.  Seems like they have, in fact, "hired" a 3rd party to do the collections, but in that agreement, they've brought that 3rd party under the Amex umbrella so that collections folks are operating as if they were the OC.  I doubt it's as official as a secundment agreement, but if what you suspect is going on is going on, then it's got to be something like that if they're avoiding changing the status of the debt in terms of ownership/assignment.

Not surprised that the Amex folks don't think of these folks as "real" Amex folks.  Also would not be surprised to find out that these folks have been carefully trained to represent that they are Amex.  Probably part of the agreement.

Not sure how you'd find that out--i.e. what the agreement between the two companies (Amex and CA) actually is.  Discovery?

ETA:  could also just be a different subsidiary of Amex.  They've got a bunch of subs, and maybe they just invented a new one who doesn't have any AmEx employees, but has a bunch of contractors that perform the function.  Even if the contractors are employed by a CA, and get their checks from the CA, if they're contractors to Amex, then they work for Amex.  Shadier and shadier.  Good luck.

Message Edited by jesslyn on 09-09-2009 09:42 AM

[Underh20]

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@Anonymous wrote:
There are several CAs associated with that address.  One is West Assest Management, Suite 100, another is Omnunim Worldwide Inc, Suite 250.

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Bingo, Guiness!

I just confirmed with AmEx legal that their COs are outsourced.  Their two prime CAs are West (formerly Omnium) and Universal Fidelity.  Although given wide lattitude by AmEx to use their name and even trademarked logo, they are not owned by AmEx and thus not AmEx employees (although several in West management are former AmEx executives).

Also re-confirmed with FTC Financial Practices Division that unless collection entity staff are direct employees of OC (i.e. their W2 states employer as AmEx, FICO contributions are paid directly by AmEx), it is a CA.

[Anonymous]

As far as I know, using a name other than the CA name, is illegal.  It does not matter that AmEX gives them permission, they are not supposed to claim to be someone they are not.

[Underh20]

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@Anonymous wrote:

As far as I know, using a name other than the CA name, is illegal.  It does not matter that AmEX gives them permission, they are not supposed to claim to be someone they are not.

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I'd have to agree with you.

Time to draft a nice little C&D letter.