Debts and Skip Tracing - What Are My Rights?

[desertredbird]

I understand this is a tricky topic because collectors have the right to skip trace to find you when you owe money.  I owe multiple smaller debts from some past loans and cards when I went through a tough financial period while in a bad relationship.  (I'll have to post in the relationship section to tell that story sometime!) I'm trying to settle debts however I can, as soon as I can, and have been proud of my ability to negotiate payment plans and avoid bankruptcy or garnishment.  

Unfortunately, I am all of a sudden in a very odd and frustrating situation.  I lost track of some of these debts, and they were referred to agencies that I haven't heard of (not that I'm even familiar with that many collection agencies!) and frankly their phone numbers show up labeled "Scam Likely" on my cell phone when they call!  So naturally I have not answered, and they have not necessarily left a message at times either!  This would not be the end of the world if they at least followed up with an email or a letter. 

But that's not what is happening.  Instead, they are calling my sister.  Repeatedly.  Multiple creditors.  It's happening all at once now, two or three in the past few weeks (also odd!), and it's a complete mess and has injected new tension and conflict into what was already a shaky sibling relationship.  It does stop as soon as I finally reach them myself, but I CAN'T do that UNLESS I KNOW they are trying to reach me!  (Note:  My sister DOES pick up the phone for scam calls, sigh.)  

The agency that I spoke with today told me that they "would not call these numbers again" and were "sorry" (this is always what they tell me), but they were just "calling the two references I gave."  I would NEVER give out my sister's number!  I have indeed given out friends' numbers (with permission) who I know I can trust to be sympathetic when I need to apply for a loan, etc.  When I asked who the other "reference" was that I "gave out," they said my ex-husband and I basically screamed into the phone!  When I calmed down, I asked for a callback from a manager to find out how they found these "references" but I am still waiting and won't hold my breath.  (I did make a payment arrangement as well.)

I'm sorry, this post is probably veering toward TMI but here are my questions: 

1.  Clearly these aren't "references" I gave, as noted.  How are they obtaining this information and from where?  Is it a database that I can update or remove my info from (as one does with the dark web)?  

2.  Or are they obtaining this info directly from the dark web itself?  Should I be worried about the security of my personal information? 

3.  How does one handle collection calls in today's world in which "scam likely" calls really could be a scam?  (And I do receive real actual scam calls too!)  Again, I would pick up if I really knew it was a legit agency.  I don't have time to pick up every single call and don't understand why they aren't leaving messages--it's almost as if they would rather talk to my sister than me!

Thank you for any help or advice you have, fellow members!

[Cowboys4Life]

"1.  Clearly these aren't "references" I gave, as noted.  How are they obtaining this information and from where?  Is it a database that I can update or remove my info from (as one does with the dark web)?"

You can never really remove your information from the internet.  It is eternal in the digital era.  Even the most innocent websites like whitepages.com will show neighbors and relatives.  It isn't difficult to track people down these days.  My guess is if these are not references you gave that this might be a scam.  They phished your debts from the internet and are targeting your sister and not you hoping she will either panic or feel sorry for you and pay.

"2.  Or are they obtaining this info directly from the dark web itself?  Should I be worried about the security of my personal information? "

They are probably getting it straight from the web itself.  The dark web is where your information is sold for identity theft.

"3.  How does one handle collection calls in today's world in which "scam likely" calls really could be a scam?  (And I do receive real actual scam calls too!)  Again, I would pick up if I really knew it was a legit agency.  I don't have time to pick up every single call and don't understand why they aren't leaving messages--it's almost as if they would rather talk to my sister than me!"

My guess is they are scam calls.  That is why they want to speak to your sister and not you.  The actual consumer will ask too many questions that will trip them up.  It is also why they are not leaving messages.  The phone number is likely spoofed, a burner cell phone and untraceable.  They would have to leave the name of their business and they risk you googling and researching it and finding nothing.  They use a name similar to an actual agency hoping you will assume it is the same one and didn't hear them clearly.  If this was a legit collector they would ask for how to reach you then contact you.  You can tell your sister to hang up on them or give them your direct contact then you handle it.  If they do call you ask for them to send something in writing.  The FDCPA requires they do so within five days of direct contact with you.  If they refuse, say they can't or state they already did it is likely a scam.  A legit agency will send it again.  You can even be polite and say you have had a lot of scam calls and the only way to isolate the actual debts and pay them is if you get the bill in writing.  Watch how quickly they flee.  If they threaten arrest, fraud charges, want to send a process server "today", or ask for Western Union or gift cards as payment hang up:  SCAM.

[bass_playr]

The way you tell if they are scams is in the details.  Personally, at this point with the info in your first post, I do not believe they are all scammers.  Not yet, anyway.

So here's the basic thing.  Third party Debt collectors are generally allowed to make contact with third parties, in a genuine attempt to locate you.  They CANNOT by federal law identify your business to that third party, meaning if one of these agencies called your sister and explained that you owe a debt to them, that's quite illegal.  They can only make contact with a third party one time, generally.  And they cannot disclose to that person that they are a debt collector, that you owe money, etc etc.  They can ask for updated contact info.  They can also ask your sister to ask you to call them.  That's about all the law allows them to do.  

So, did your sister get a call from someone who told her that theyre trying to collect money from you?  

One sure fire way to identify some scammers is if they call your sister threatening legal action, arrest, etc etc against you.  

[desertredbird]

Thank you, Cowboys4Life, for the clear answers and advice!  Unfortunately, I think there is a chance these are legit, but I am going to ask for verification in writing of the debt (not just the proposed payment plan) before proceeding further given my scam concerns.  I still wish there was a way to identify when to pick up the phone and when not to do so with these calls, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that they preferred to call my sister because she would be less likely to ignore and hang up on them or ask tough questions!  

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@Cowboys4Life wrote:

"1.  Clearly these aren't "references" I gave, as noted.  How are they obtaining this information and from where?  Is it a database that I can update or remove my info from (as one does with the dark web)?"

You can never really remove your information from the internet.  It is eternal in the digital era.  Even the most innocent websites like whitepages.com will show neighbors and relatives.  It isn't difficult to track people down these days.  My guess is if these are not references you gave that this might be a scam.  They phished your debts from the internet and are targeting your sister and not you hoping she will either panic or feel sorry for you and pay.

"2.  Or are they obtaining this info directly from the dark web itself?  Should I be worried about the security of my personal information? "

They are probably getting it straight from the web itself.  The dark web is where your information is sold for identity theft.

"3.  How does one handle collection calls in today's world in which "scam likely" calls really could be a scam?  (And I do receive real actual scam calls too!)  Again, I would pick up if I really knew it was a legit agency.  I don't have time to pick up every single call and don't understand why they aren't leaving messages--it's almost as if they would rather talk to my sister than me!"

My guess is they are scam calls.  That is why they want to speak to your sister and not you.  The actual consumer will ask too many questions that will trip them up.  It is also why they are not leaving messages.  The phone number is likely spoofed, a burner cell phone and untraceable.  They would have to leave the name of their business and they risk you googling and researching it and finding nothing.  They use a name similar to an actual agency hoping you will assume it is the same one and didn't hear them clearly.  If this was a legit collector they would ask for how to reach you then contact you.  You can tell your sister to hang up on them or give them your direct contact then you handle it.  If they do call you ask for them to send something in writing.  The FDCPA requires they do so within five days of direct contact with you.  If they refuse, say they can't or state they already did it is likely a scam.  A legit agency will send it again.  You can even be polite and say you have had a lot of scam calls and the only way to isolate the actual debts and pay them is if you get the bill in writing.  Watch how quickly they flee.  If they threaten arrest, fraud charges, want to send a process server "today", or ask for Western Union or gift cards as payment hang up:  SCAM.

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[desertredbird]

Thank you bass_playr, you bring up a lot of good points!  This is very tricky and a fine line here, in part because my sister didn't handle it well (if only she had just hung up!) and I think her conversation may have led the collector to disclose information vs. the info originally being offered unprompted.  Nonetheless, I think it's possible for two things to be true at once: The debts may be legit, but the collectors may have committed violations.  As I said in a different reply on this thread, I plan now to ask for verification of the debt in writing.  Thanks again!

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@bass_playr wrote:

The way you tell if they are scams is in the details.  Personally, at this point with the info in your first post, I do not believe they are all scammers.  Not yet, anyway.

So here's the basic thing.  Third party Debt collectors are generally allowed to make contact with third parties, in a genuine attempt to locate you.  They CANNOT by federal law identify your business to that third party, meaning if one of these agencies called your sister and explained that you owe a debt to them, that's quite illegal.  They can only make contact with a third party one time, generally.  And they cannot disclose to that person that they are a debt collector, that you owe money, etc etc.  They can ask for updated contact info.  They can also ask your sister to ask you to call them.  That's about all the law allows them to do.  

So, did your sister get a call from someone who told her that theyre trying to collect money from you?  

One sure fire way to identify some scammers is if they call your sister threatening legal action, arrest, etc etc against you.  

---

[MeredithLepore]

These very well could be scam calls as there are many scammers that pose as collection agencies. To avoid this, check your credit report to verify that the debt is yours and that it has been sent to collections. Avoid the scam calls (and tell your sister to too) until you can verify they are legitimate. Focus on paying off the debts that you have arranged payment plans for and don't engage with the scammers.

[Bmom]

They're using computer programs such as accurint, Lexus nexus etc. You enter a social, name, address, etc it pulls possible but usually perfectly: relatives , neighbors,  possible employers,  etc.