Ethics and Credit

[Anonymous]

Tell me about it..  My 'insurance' at Walmart didn't actually cover anything somehow. When I broke my arm, I paid $5000 out of pocket, most of which went on credit cards. $5000 for an Xray and a cast.Then it took me 1.5 years to pay if off at 21% interest.

My husband is Canadian. Their tax rate is just a little higher than ours. He's been hospitalized before, for weeks at a time, never had to worry about having insurance or having his insurance cancelled for missing work because of being hospitalized. But, to do that, they cap the pay of Dr's. Of course, that cap means that education costs are lower, around $12,000 per year for medical school or else no one would go. Our state school charges something in the neighborhood of $34-$40,000 per year. But, our Dr's earn more than $200,000 per year.

Of course, as soon as you start a discussion about medical care it starts to get divided by politics. This is about when someone pipes up "move back to Canada."

In a couple years I could have free healthcare too if I felt like dealing with immigration again.. lol

It crosses my mind a lot. I feel bad keeping my daughter here just because I strongly prefer the US. She has the opportunity for a much better life in Canada. Quality of life there is so different, so much less stressful when it comes to medical care. Their unemployment offices are staffed by competent people who process your claim in a reasonable amount of time. It took 12 weeks for my husband to get his first unemployment check here when he was laid off last summer, all due to unemployments bungling. He was almost back at work before they gave him a single check. When we lived in Canada it took a week or two to get your first unemployment check and when you called a person answered instead of the two hour automated/hold loop we get calling here.

But, there aren't any palm trees in Canada. Lot's of good wine though.. lol

[Anonymous]

I hope this thread sticks around.

I'd love to respond but am too busy at the moment for really getting into the subject.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Ethics don't have much of a place in a free market... That's what regulation is for

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What do we base our regulations on ?

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Ah, a very smart question! To keep us on money and out of politics, I humbly admit conditional defeat

[webhopper]

I think bankrupcy laws should be stricter...  They should require someone to work with a non profit credit counselor for at least a yr before filing. I don't think its ethical to not pay anything.  I do believe in settlements though, especially in extenuating circumstances....  I think all the creditors included in the credit counseling plan should take a settlement after receiving payments for 1 yr set up by the credit counselor...

[Anonymous]

I will say, in the face of my above humiliating defeat , my personal belief is that decisions surrounding personal finance should be made purely from a financial perspective...

Strategically defaulting, short selling, paying a bill on time, paying in full every month, closing an account, opening an account, filing bankruptcy, letting an account fall into collections... Each of these is purely a financial decision, with various consequences that have significant weight.

EDIT: Evaluating the consequences, and how they affect you and those around you (i.e. family) is part of the decision, and admittedly may include a whole slew of ethical decisions...

[Anonymous]

Only the person making a choice/decision can know if it's ethical or not.

[thankfulheart]

Very interesting thread.  In my opinion, it is vital that our young people be educated around credit, starting early on.  Thankfully, my teenagers are watching me go through the rebuilding process and can see the importance of sound financial management and credit smarts.  I did not have the benefit of that and suffered for it far too long.  Thank GOODNESS I found MyFico and the folks here who can continue educating people.

I absolutely think GWs are ethical.  It is a decision between a creditor and debtor to show mercy. Nothing wrong with that.  Was I late? Absolutely. Did my circumstances stink? You bet. Did I do the right thing and PAY those bills rather than easy out with BK? Yep. Thank you to the many creditors who showed compassion, I truly appreciate it.  As for the creditors who did not? That's OK, I appreciate your taking the time to read and respond in a compassionate manner and I understand.  I don't like looking at the consequences for something that was out of my control every day, but so be it. Lesson learned.

Let's not even discuss self-employment and insurance (or uninsurability). 

As far as the question of my auto and home insurance premiums being based on my credit score...THAT is an outrage and I still can't believe we allow that.  I have never had a claim (or a late payment) in 30 years, yet my premium went up 30% the second the state insurance board allowed the insurers to use credit scores. INSANE.  And, now that my scores have climbed, I don't see the rates going down any, either.  That is unethical to me.

[Anonymous]

I think the overwhelming majority of this message board is inherently in a different boat, especially active members. How so? Because we've taken the time to reach out and look for answers to questions about our financial history, good, bad, or middle-of-the-road. To me, the desire for any to become aware of such an element speaks to a level of responsibility whereas most individuals in our situation are simply going to say "To hell with it" and let both their debts and their credit picture go to pot. 

That being said, I don't think that makes us any better than the individual who isn't as credit savvy and maintains a 760+, but I do believe the fact that we're all attempting to better our financial lives by being here says something. And I notice the overwhelming majority of this board look for PFD's or GW's after payment when they can't get PFD's (or are like me and weren't aware of PFD's when they started ... oops). 

To those of you who shotgun DV's and disputes, well you're a different story. 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Tell me about it..  My 'insurance' at Walmart didn't actually cover anything somehow. When I broke my arm, I paid $5000 out of pocket, most of which went on credit cards. $5000 for an Xray and a cast.Then it took me 1.5 years to pay if off at 21% interest.

My husband is Canadian. Their tax rate is just a little higher than ours. He's been hospitalized before, for weeks at a time, never had to worry about having insurance or having his insurance cancelled for missing work because of being hospitalized. But, to do that, they cap the pay of Dr's. Of course, that cap means that education costs are lower, around $12,000 per year for medical school or else no one would go. Our state school charges something in the neighborhood of $34-$40,000 per year. But, our Dr's earn more than $200,000 per year.

Of course, as soon as you start a discussion about medical care it starts to get divided by politics. This is about when someone pipes up "move back to Canada."

In a couple years I could have free healthcare too if I felt like dealing with immigration again.. lol

It crosses my mind a lot. I feel bad keeping my daughter here just because I strongly prefer the US. She has the opportunity for a much better life in Canada. Quality of life there is so different, so much less stressful when it comes to medical care. Their unemployment offices are staffed by competent people who process your claim in a reasonable amount of time. It took 12 weeks for my husband to get his first unemployment check here when he was laid off last summer, all due to unemployments bungling. He was almost back at work before they gave him a single check. When we lived in Canada it took a week or two to get your first unemployment check and when you called a person answered instead of the two hour automated/hold loop we get calling here.

But, there aren't any palm trees in Canada. Lot's of good wine though.. lol

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While I'm sure there are many benefits to living in Canada-- What's the downside? When I see shows like House Hunters and Property Virgins the townhouses and condos are always north of $300,000. Here in FL that would get you a very nice sized home in a livable neighborhood (in many areas a mini mansion)!

I know those types of shows aren't really geared towards exposing the Canadian ghetto's but who is on the other end of the spectrum? Sure healthcare (in a general sense) is taken care of but I'm sure there is still the poor. I wonder if Fico Scores in Canada are higher on average than that of the US solely based on available healthcare.

Should healthcare be associated with your Credit?!? (without being too political) What's creditworthy about being ill, getting hurt and not being able to pay for healthcare?

[Anonymous]

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@webhopper wrote:

I think bankrupcy laws should be stricter...  They should require someone to work with a non profit credit counselor for at least a yr before filing. I don't think its ethical to not pay anything.  I do believe in settlements though, especially in extenuating circumstances....  I think all the creditors included in the credit counseling plan should take a settlement after receiving payments for 1 yr set up by the credit counselor...

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To what extent? 15 years on your CR? Small debts need to be PIF? Should there be limitations as to what is included in a BK?