Ethics and Credit

[Anonymous]

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@CreditCrusader wrote:

This is one of those areas of debate where there are no winners or losers - just opinions - and thank God for our right to express those

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Big +1

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

The lies we tell ourselves are far bigger than any of those that work their way onto an application or credit report, LOL!

In a nutshell: Much of the negative behavior that lead to needing repair is driven by a strong sense of entitlement.

Skipped ahead but, restricting the report someone can see is a lie. If it were my money, loaning it to someone with a locked report wouldn't even be an option. Even a clean report wouldn't give me much confidence, now that I know what can be done to pretty things up.

I do feel 7 years is too long for something simple (like a 30 day late payment) to stay on one's report.

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Although I agree with much of what you said that doesn't mean we're right and everyone else is wrong... Just that we're in agreement of the statement.

I often wonder why should a 30 day payment be penalized for 7 years, especially if I was charged $100 in fees to get current with a $20 min payment and I've probably been rate jacked to 29.99% apr Does that punishment really fit the crime? Maybe it does... Maybe not...

[rckstrscott]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Can we have an adult conversation regarding Ethics and credit cards?

What do you consider to be fair vs unfair?

What practices do you deem acceptable?

Recently had a small back and fourth with a member who had excellent points:

     "So none here should do a PFD either. I mean you were late right? The were reporting such right? Then its unethical to have them change your report. How about Goodwill letters? Those too are unethical. Lenders should never agree to ANY Goodwill because again you screwed up right? VERY UNETHICAL. How about paying your cards down to raise your score even if you plan to recharge them later or worse yet, transferring the debt to your wife's credit card. Horrible!! This whole site is EXTREMELY UNETHICAL teaching people how to repair their credit..."

What are you views on Co-signers?

What do you think about AU's?

Any animosity towards Backdating?

Share what you think of the way Insurance Companies uses your credit to charge higher rates!

Your Thoughts are greatly appreciated...

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Whenever I think of the credit reporting system, and how to rebuild, I have to remind myself that there are statutory rules in place on what can and cannot report. With those statutes, comes interpretation, comes grey area, comes black and white. That is part of being involved in a system.

I will use a personal example. I got a suspended drivers license when I was 23, which was 10 years ago. It wasn't for doing anything malicious, it was for failing an emissions test in Illinois. As a 23 year old, it feels harsh to be treated that way over an adminstrative thing. The 33 year old Me looks back says 'son, you should play by the rules, get the car fixed and save the hassle' ---- But the young me kept driving, kept getting arrested, kept skipping court, kept compounding. Over the next 8 yeasr, I was arrested mulitple times, huge court costs, and then the subsquent lawyer fees on top of that.

By 2008, I was facing 5 class A misdemeanors in Illinois. I was looking at a potential of 365 days in jail for each count.

My lawyer, who I paid big dollars to, got me off with a slap on the wrist. In many ways, that is an injustice to the system because I most definitely committed the violations. Now I am driving, making good money, being a productive citizen.

People who know me feel I got off easy.

Yet, I slept in a conference room at work from 2009-2010 while waiting out my final suspension. I would keep a suitcase at work, wait until managment left, and slept there. Mgmt has no idea. I would take 3 hour EACH WAY train commutes home to see my apartment on the weekend for a day. I had no freedom, I couldn't really go on dates. Go out to eat. I had to walk everywhere. All of this is of my own doing, but still hardship.

Top it off ,I spent over 12k in legal, court, ect.

So it is all realtive. In some eyes, I cheated the system. To others, I am an inspiration and a testament you can work your way through these issues. (by being resourceful, sleeping at work ect)

I took my credit rebuilding the same way. I made some questionable decisions to get results, and you can say the ends justify the means if you want, but playing within the system is how it works. It is how almost everything works. Those who game the system often get ahead, and are either deemed cheaters or intelligent.

-scott

[Anonymous]

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@CreditCrusader wrote:

1. BK filers DO suffer...your credit score sinks like a rock, and you spend the next 10 years trying to run up a never-ending set of escalators. Sure, sub-prime lenders will give you AF, fee-filled cards with sky-high APRs, but prime lenders won't touch you...regardless of the reason. A BK blacklist is no laughing matter...take it from one who knows. I filed because of unending medical bills so my son could breathe. I pay the price years later...maybe not the price you feel I deserve, but I pay one nevertheless.

2/3. People who are careless with their credit often swim out of quicksand by virtue of absolutely NOTHING they did on their own. They piggyback someone else's credit.

Here's the thing, LS..and there really is no way around this one: BOTH ARE LEGAL. We have BK laws in large part because the Bible makes mention of forgiving debts (Deuteronomy 15:1-6), which tests the ethical component dramatically IMHO. Some companies allow AUs as a reward to their most valued cardholders...which some might find shady, but it's legal and allowed by both parties.

This is one of those areas of debate where there are no winners or losers - just opinions - and thank God for our right to express those

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This is what upset's me to my core! What does the fact that your child's breathing (or lack thereof) have to do with YOUR credit?!? If it's a life or death situation, Why do you have to make a decision between your financial future or a loved one? This doesn't make sense.

Do the hospitals run your credit?

Does the hospital show installment payments?

Will the hospital offer you the opportunity to finance/shop for the best rate?

Do any of the aforementioned questions matter?

I'm not sure of the above but I am very sure they will drop a collection on your CR quicker than a game of hot potato!!!

IMHO no one should be albe to report negatively on my CR (or pull a Hard report) unless you are required to report on my CR in a positive fashion... Yes I'm talking to YOU rent Landlord, Cell phone conglomerate, and you pesky Insurance companies! I'm gonna back away from my computer before I slap someone

[CreditCrusader]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@CreditCrusader wrote:

1. BK filers DO suffer...your credit score sinks like a rock, and you spend the next 10 years trying to run up a never-ending set of escalators. Sure, sub-prime lenders will give you AF, fee-filled cards with sky-high APRs, but prime lenders won't touch you...regardless of the reason. A BK blacklist is no laughing matter...take it from one who knows. I filed because of unending medical bills so my son could breathe. I pay the price years later...maybe not the price you feel I deserve, but I pay one nevertheless.

2/3. People who are careless with their credit often swim out of quicksand by virtue of absolutely NOTHING they did on their own. They piggyback someone else's credit.

Here's the thing, LS..and there really is no way around this one: BOTH ARE LEGAL. We have BK laws in large part because the Bible makes mention of forgiving debts (Deuteronomy 15:1-6), which tests the ethical component dramatically IMHO. Some companies allow AUs as a reward to their most valued cardholders...which some might find shady, but it's legal and allowed by both parties.

This is one of those areas of debate where there are no winners or losers - just opinions - and thank God for our right to express those

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This is what upset's me to my core! What does the fact that your child's breathing (or lack thereof) have to do with YOUR credit?!? If it's a life or death situation, Why do you have to make a decision between your financial future or a loved one? This doesn't make sense.

Do the hospitals run your credit?

Does the hospital show installment payments?

Will the hospital offer you the opportunity to finance/shop for the best rate?

Do any of the aforementioned questions matter?

I'm not sure of the above but I am very sure they will drop a collection on your CR quicker than a game of hot potato!!!

IMHO no one should be albe to report negatively on my CR (or pull a Hard report) unless you are required to report on my CR in a positive fashion... Yes I'm talking to YOU rent Landlord, Cell phone conglomerate, and you pesky Insurance companies! I'm gonna back away from my computer before I slap someone

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To be honest with you, I didn't even think about the importance of my credit at that moment and time. The medical facility didn't want to accept what I could pay...and it was as much as I could afford without starving my family. They simply outsourced the collection duties to a collection law firm that ate its way to the center of my financial universe. It was BK or endless garnishments...I chose BK.

How ruining my credit became a goal for these people still doesn't make sense...but my son was more than worth it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

@ Teen,

I pretty much feel ethics is about the frame of reference and thought process we use to make moral decisions. Right or wrong really dont factor in, from my perspective.

For example;

Why should someone be denied BK protection because their debt is student loans? Someone defaults on $1000 student loan never gets a clean report but a $1M BK can structure things in a way that allows them to recover.

Why should someone who knows how to work the credit repair system get a mortgage while others are forced to let lates, CO, or whatever age off.

Medical debt is a tough one. If people don't pay; at some point delivering healthcare becomes impossible. It costs way too much to become a doctor but that's an aspect to healthcare we'll never honestly until there are no other options. At one point people were saying filing medical bankruptcy would become a reality but I haven't heard anything about it.

[MattH]

The standards by which I judge my own actions have not changed much from what the Jesuits taught me in a Catholic school decades ago. However, since then I have known people whose individual circumstances made it extremely difficult to follow those rules. So while my own rules are basically the same, now I am much less prone to condemn others for their choices. I won't claim that I always do the right thing, as Saint Paul wrote, "if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us." I will say that for the most part I have tried to play by the rules. I have been very fortunate because it has been possible for me to get much of what I wanted, and everything I needed, within the rules. If my circumstances were less fortunate, and it seemed impossible for me to get anywhere within the rules, then I might have been tempted to rewrite the rules. For somebody like me who started life with many advantages, judging folks in different situations would seem hypocritical. I have never had to choose between paying a debt and putting food on the table. I have never had to postpone needed medical care for financial reasons. I have never wondered how I could possibly persuade employers to look beyond my past history. Who am I to judge those whose choices were so much more constrained than mine?

[RobertEG]

To me, it is not really a matter of ethics on the part of the consumer.

If options are presented to maximize one's view of your credit, it is not unethical to use them.

The issue for me is not so much from the consumer's viewpoint, but rather from a system viewpoint, particularly regading PFDs and GWs.

The system suffers from subjective deletion of accurate information from consumer credit files.  It deprives others of the basic purpose of the credit reporting system.... to be able to view an accurate consumer history in order to make educated decisions on the extension of credit or services.

Each individual understandably wants their own derogs deleted.  If a majority of creditors deleted derogs based on payment of the debt, it would skew the usefulness of comparative data, making the credit scoring system a joke.

That is the reaon why the CRAs have a published policy that creditors are not to delete based on payment.

Integrity of the credit reporting system.  Not to control consumer ethics.

[Anonymous]

@ Robert,

How can you say ethics play no role when some would never pay unless there were some secondary benefit?

[bettercreditguy1]

It has been proven that persons with lower credit scores will stage or fake situations in which to receive re imbursements from insurance companies for injuries or lost property. This also happens with workers compensation insurance and invalid use of sick days for pay. At the end these habits raise rates for services and products for the general population. If one can reduce the fraud and fudging, we all will have lower prices.