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Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....

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pipeguy
Senior Contributor

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....


@Anonymous wrote:

they're great for companies like Visa/MC because that's how they make money, the issuing bank may collect some of the swipe fee too but interest is primarily their game. the fees are bad for the retailers you shop at because it cuts into their profits... the reason some consumers consider the swipe fees bad is because most retailers will usually pass the swipe fees on to us in the form of higher prices for the products they sell. 

While this is what a retailer "wants to do" in many cases they can't - "pricing" is not as simple or subjective as the cost of product + percentage of profit. There is a very big difference between a major retailer, say Macy's or Best Buy or Starbucks (etc) and the local 7-11 or coffee shop or dry cleaners. Not only do large retailers pay lower fees, but their cost of business, including but not limited to rent, cost of goods, is generally better than a locally owned small business. Of course their numvers are much larger, say the local sewing shop pays $1800 a month for their 1600 sf shop w/$25,000 in gross sales and Best Buy pays $20,000 a month for their 300,000 sf store and do $2,000,000 per month (the numbers are just made up to show a point, I have no idea how much Best Buy pays for rent in Jackass flats or in downtown Chicago).
Larger retailers will price their goods to include all costs and if swipe fees are say 2% of gross sales that will be a factor in their pricing (net pricing discounted from MSRP), they are NOT going to adjust per sale based on which network or which reward structure, they'll use their cost of "discount fees" aka swipe fees over all as a cost factor.
Smaller retailers look at it the same way, but are under greater pricing pressure to compete with online, bigbox, walmart, etc and they don't have the volume to allow for much error.  Using the same example as above, if I'm doing $2,500.000 a month and operate on a net net profit after all costs of 5% I'm making $125,000 after all costs. If I'm making  5% on $20,000 that's only $1,000 and its that net/net profit that lets me invest in new staff, new inventory, a new sign, radio ads, etc.
Keep in mind too that in many states your business license is a percent of sales, and gross business figures (not actual profit) are used to determine your rent, your employment/unemployment costs and lots of other things so if a small business was to just add the 3% cost of swipe fees to their gross selling price, they'll probably only recover 2% - if a small business was adding to pass through swipe fees, they'd have to add 5% or more just to cover costs and the market in many areas determines what someone will pay (actual sale price between stores and online).
You hear a lot of justification for swipe fees and yes the networls and issures deserve a profitable business for what they provide, but if you actually check out the SEC annual reports for MC/V/AE/D you'll see that like "debit card swipe fees reduced by dodd-frank" credit card swipe fees are way too high and a retailer (anyone that accepts CC's) has no choice but accept what is offered.
The "cashless" commernce being pushed today where "they" want you to use your CC for everything - think of all the rewards you'll earn - is a successful marketing campaign to insure that the networks and issues get a cut of every single dollar you spend.
  
Message 11 of 17
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....

pipeguy, my statement was an oversimplification, but fees are incorporated into pricing. 


@pipeguy wrote:
Larger retailers will price their goods to include all costs and if swipe fees are say 2% of gross sales that will be a factor in their pricing (net pricing discounted from MSRP), they are NOT going to adjust per sale based on which network or which reward structure, they'll use their cost of "discount fees" aka swipe fees over all as a cost factor.  

This is essentially what I was hinting at, not that there is some simple "I'm charged X, so I'm raising prices by X" markup going on. 

 

However different businesses have different ways of handling it too. For example, in some parts of the country (southeast Michigan for example) many gas stations have begun charging 2 different rates on gas depending on if you're paying with cash or a card. Most gas stations in my area give anywhere from 5-10 cents per gallon discounts if you pay with cash (or their branded credit card in some cases). Other types of businesses (the convenience store by my office for example) require a minimum spend per transaction for anyone not paying with cash to increase the likelihood of making a profit above covering the CCC's fees. Everyone has their own way of making sure that their expenses are covered, and that tends to get passed off to consumers. 

Message 12 of 17
mitchblue
Valued Contributor

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....

This is probably a dumb question..but is there a swipe when purchasing online?

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Message 13 of 17
CreditDunce
Valued Contributor

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....


@mitchblue wrote:

This is probably a dumb question..but is there a swipe when purchasing online?


Yes, generally "card not present" swipe fees are higher.

Message 14 of 17
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....

I thought this was interesting.

The problem with all of these great deals, as is the problem with increased credit/debit card usage, lies solely on WHO ends up paying for these "deals" in the end. No one ever considers the obvious here: GREED. Who is behind every single one of these cards? A bank. We all know that banks do not just give anything away. They do not jus offer up perks for free. Someone always pays for them.

If The Great Recession should have taught the American people anything, it's that the banking industry is not on our side. We still feel the results of this today as larger banks continue tightening policies, raising fees, and introducing new fees for previously free services (Chase now charges fees for depositing too much cash into your account!!).

Yes, I digress. With cause. Everyone needs to understand that the banking industry wants to encourage the increase in card usage. Why? It makes them partners in every single transaction that occurs with one, and they will be getting a piece of the action for each and every swipe. Consider that every time any of us use a credit or debit card, for any reason. Each time that card is swiped, the business that just accepted your card (so you can get whatever benefit out of it you think you are) is paying a fee to the bank that issued it.

Often these fees are rather steep and certainly add up to the cost of doing business in America today. So…what happens to that cost as it accumulates higher and higher with bank-sanctioned increased usage? Do these businesses choose to eat those costs, prolonging the affects of The Recession that slow economic recovery, particularly for small business? Some do. If they don't, those costs are turned around and compensated for by raising the price in goods, services, or by tagging on their own fees for card usage.

Ultimately, my good people, it is you and all of the rest of us who pay the ultimate price. While the banking industry reaps their profits in the billions of dollars in processing fees alone, we see an increase in what we pay across the board, just for the perceived benefits and conveniences these cards allegedly bring.

I applaud business such as Winco Foods, who do not accept credit cards in an effort to keep their prices low for their customers, and other business who have turned things around by charging the customer the fees for swiping their cards. After all, it is your choice to use the card, you should be the one to pay for any fees associated with that, not the business and not the next customer in line.

I can assure you that if each of you were responsible for paying the fees that your card usage burdens this economy with, you'd think twice next time you pulled it out, and our wonderfully greedy banking industry would have to find another means of getting their hands in our pockets. Remember, banks don't give anything away for free anymore. They don't have to. Our government won't let them fail no matter what, and they'll continue grabbing money by the billions any way they can until they get slapped on the wrist.

Only we have the collective power to influence their practices.

Message 15 of 17
takeshi74
Senior Contributor

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....


@Anonymous wrote:
After all, it is your choice to use the card, you should be the one to pay for any fees associated with that, not the business and not the next customer in line.


The argument works both ways.  It's a cost of doing business.  Granted, there tends ot be a negative impact for smaller businesses but many businesses also benefit from much greater revenue due to credit card acceptance. It's not quite so simple as you're making it out to be.

 


@Anonymous wrote:
I can assure you that if each of you were responsible for paying the fees that your card usage burdens this economy with

You just said:


@Anonymous wrote:
Ultimately, my good people, it is you and all of the rest of us who pay the ultimate price.

 Was your intent to say "if we were aware of the cost"?

Message 16 of 17
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Explain more to me about "swipe fees". Confused....

Let me clarify that I wrote I thought this was interesting above the paragraphs I copied and pasted.

Message 17 of 17
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