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OK, what do you say to a guy with a mid six figure income who is rarely late (Maybe 1 30 day in 2 years) carrying 35K in CC debt which is entirely transitory, he pays all card at least once yearly. Owns 3 properties, only one with a mortgage. Noderogetory info except showing one 30 day late payment on a medical bill he cosigned for his son.
Would you believe a 560 score? I mean WTF???
TampaBrian wrote:OK, what do you say to a guy with a mid six figure income who is rarely late (Maybe 1 30 day in 2 years) carrying 35K in CC debt which is entirely transitory, he pays all card at least once yearly. Owns 3 properties, only one with a mortgage. Noderogetory info except showing one 30 day late payment on a medical bill he cosigned for his son.
Would you believe a 560 score? I mean WTF???
Yes, I'd believe. If I were a betting person, I'd say it is your utilization that is keeping that score there. Utilization is 30% of your score.
35K in balances, what is total CL?
My total credit limits were at 80K+ though the have been reduced to around 50K since the bailouts. I have over 35 years of credit history and have never defaultred on anything, In fact, everything has been paid early. I have friends carrying higher credit balances whith less than half of my income/assets and no stable income, yet still score better. I'm just sying the the algorythm used by FICO is faulty or at least could be improved. One size does not fit all!
Banks made much better performing loans before they used FICO as a predictor.
FYI, I am a retired MBA CFP now working as a securities arbitrator with a fair amount of expertise in banking history, which seems to be a rare thing these days.
TampaBrian wrote:My total credit limits were at 80K+ though the have been reduced to around 50K since the bailouts. I have over 35 years of credit history and have never defaultred on anything, In fact, everything has been paid early. I have friends carrying higher credit balances whith less than half of my income/assets and no stable income, yet still score better. I'm just sying the the algorythm used by FICO is faulty or at least could be improved. One size does not fit all!
Banks made much better performing loans before they used FICO as a predictor.
FYI, I am a retired MBA CFP now working as a securities arbitrator with a fair amount of expertise in banking history, which seems to be a rare thing these days.
Message Edited by TampaBrian on 04-26-2009 12:05 PM
FICO doesn't care how stable your income is, what your income is, or what your assets are.
If you have 35K out of 50, that is 70% utilization.
So, the only negative thing on your report is 1 - 30 day late payment and you have over 35 years of history on your report? How recent is the late payment?
I agree that FICO could be improved, and apparently FICO believes so as well, seeing as they are developing a new formula.
ETA: Which score is that, from which CRA? And where did you get the score?
I agree it's at 70%. It was at 40% and after paying 10K on it three card companies dropped my limit in half or more resulting in the 70% utilization where it now stands Two companies (Case & BOA) raised my interest rate to default rate levels (28.9%). I do not carry balances on those cards but I take offense that they did so when my record with them is spotless. The reason that I have balances at all is because I'm doing major renovations to my home to better accomodate me, now that I'm in a wheelchair.
As far as the 30 day late. That was a medical card for my adult son which I cosigned for. The grantor was supposed to notify me, should my son fall behind, that was a condition of my signing and they ahd agreed, but they didn't and are reporting it late. How can you be late if you aren't even aware of it?
Do you have that agreement in writing? I know of one state where that is a state law, could be more like that. Might check your state statutes.
Where did you get that score and for what CRA is that?
How recent was the late?
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:My total credit limits were at 80K+ though the have been reduced to around 50K since the bailouts. I have over 35 years of credit history and have never defaultred on anything, In fact, everything has been paid early. I have friends carrying higher credit balances whith less than half of my income/assets and no stable income, yet still score better. I'm just sying the the algorythm used by FICO is faulty or at least could be improved. One size does not fit all!
Banks made much better performing loans before they used FICO as a predictor.
FYI, I am a retired MBA CFP now working as a securities arbitrator with a fair amount of expertise in banking history, which seems to be a rare thing these days.
FICO doesn't care how stable your income is, what your income is, or what your assets are.
If you have 35K out of 50, that is 70% utilization.
So, the only negative thing on your report is 1 - 30 day late payment and you have over 35 years of history on your report? How recent is the late payment?
I agree that FICO could be improved, and apparently FICO believes so as well, seeing as they are developing a new formula.
ETA: Which score is that, from which CRA? And where did you get the score?
+1
The Fico score is only one component of the lending decision-making process. It was never intended to replace due diligence and the consideration of income, DTI, and other factors. It is a comparison of each person's risk factors compared to the overall credit population. Based on historical averages, the least riskiest borrowers have very low utilization and zero late payments, so having 70% utilization and one late payment are two definite negatives. It is up to the lender to consider whether income and DTI outweigh those negatives.
Part of the reason there may have been better performing loans pre-Fico is that lenders might not have been quite so greedy as in recent years, and didn't falsify loan documents (including Fico scores) and push loans for unqualified applicants. We also did not have zillions of dollars of near-worthless securitized debt instruments being bought and sold as if they were pure gold. None of which can be blamed on Fico.
In addition, the "good old days" also saw a number of worthy applicants denied because of discriminatory lending practices, something which the objective Fico score has helped alleviate ...
No, not in writing (my fault and I should know better). The late was last November and though I live in Florida, My son lives in Wisconsin.
The big point is that I am one of the most credit worthy people you might ever meet, yet my FICO is in the tank. Not a very good representation of my credit worthiness. Especially in these days where many people don't know if they will have a job next month or not.
I'm a disabled Vet with a guaranteed income of over $10,000 per month
The Fico score is only one component of the lending decision-making process. It was never intended to replace due diligence and the consideration of income, DTI, and other factors. It is a comparison of each person's risk factors compared to the overall credit population. Based on historical averages, the least riskiest borrowers have very low utilization and zero late payments, so having 70% utilization and one late payment are two definite negatives. It is up to the lender to consider whether income and DTI outweigh those negatives.
I don't disagree with your statement here. It's just that too may lenders just rely on the score as a singular qualifier, and despite personal history, has a huge impact on interest rates that a person must pay. Even when the risk does not warrent it. FICO is what FICO is and as such it is NOT a great indicator of credit risk. Much can be said the same for a company's stock price. If that stock price is soaring without the fundimenatls in place and solid, that is not a stock that I would consider investing in.
Too much weight is put on the manipulation of numbers to adhere to an arbitrary "model". Then further Credit grantors put way to much weight on FICO scores when granting credit. It should be a small indicator to look more closely at someones credit history, nothing more.