INSANE PROCESS OF APPLYING THE FICO MODEL TO EXP

[Anonymous]

This has been the most frustrating thing I have EVER dealt with.  My FICO score is 113 points lower than the "PLUS" score that EXPERIAN gives.  I get that they won't be the same but give me a freakin' break. 

When I call MYFICO all you get is the usual, "We don't have access to EXP info".  When I call EXP they say we don't know how their scoring model is generating your score so differently because we don't have access to FICO's scoring model.

My FICO score has been steadily moving up on the EQ side, nice and steady.  But on the EXP side it is going in the opposite direction in almost equal amounts to the EQ going up. 

This even AFTER a change to an account, at EXP suggestion, from "installment" to "Revolving".  It went down!  It went down AFTER implementing their OWN suggestion for raising the score.

The info on the EXP and EQ reports are almost EXACTLY the same, so someone tell me WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY my score is different by as much as 50 points when the GRAND DAD OF SCORING MODELS "FICO" IS APPLIED TO VIRTUALLY THE SAME INFORMATION? 

Anyone out there have a clue?  I have been on the phone with MYFICO and EXPERIAN only to have each claim it's in the others hands. 

What a ridiculous, unfair, discriminatory process.  Embarrasing, demoralizing and disrespectful way to treat people.

The DRASTIC impact on a person's financial future is unequalled in some ways.

SO FICO, let's take a guys info, virtually identical in two places and generate a score that is different each freakin' time you do it.   Is that fair?  Is that the proper way to do business?

To cause people to have to endure such turmoil is beyond explanation.  Let's bail out another bank two why don't we.  Let's start another war.  Anyone 's FICO score at EXPERIAN get checked for any of that?   

What a joke.

[haulingthescoreup]

Again, as I know you've read here on the forums, the Experian-supplied score is a FAKO. It is derived from a different scoring formula, which rewards credit behaviors differently.

Trying to make a FAKO score happy is like trying to please some guy standing on the sidewalk when you have no clue what he wants out of you. This person (aka this FAKO score) is irrelevant to your life. I see no point in tearing yourself up and possibly damaging your credit to please a scoring formula that is NOT used by lenders and only exists to get money out of consumers.

Have you pulled your full Experian report from annualcreditreport-dot-com? Make sure that everything on it is accurate. If the info on it is basically the same as that on your EQ and TU reports, then most likely your FICO Experian score is pretty similar. If there are accounts on it which are missing from the others and vice versa (this is common), there will be some differences in score, but that's true for all of us.

Don't let Experian give you an ulcer over this! They invented the problem by refusing to let consumers purchase our own EX FICO scores. Let them make someone else crazy.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply "hauling".  I don't think I made myself very clear. 

The EXP score isn't what is tearing me up.  When the lender pulls my FICO generated score for my refi, the EQ number is dead on what I get here.  The EXP FICO that is generated is 50 points LESS thus making it impossible for me to complete my refi.

I just looked over BOTH reports and the info is virtually IDENTICAL.  The only thing different right now is that literally today EXP, after all kinds of jumping through hoops, finally changed an incorrect reporting of a "revolving" acocunt that was being reported as "installment".  ALl this time it had been reporting as "installment" when in fact it was revolving. 

That change hasn't even been pushed on the EQ side as I am scared to death to do anything over there.

My EQ FICO is 636 not great but it had been down under 600 for a while. 

My EXP FICO is 588 and based on almost identical information.  In fact the info on the EXP report actually FAVORS me given it is correctly reporting the revolving account and it's 1% balance. 

So that's why I'm so freakin' frustrated.  Virtually identical info and scores 48 points different.  The difference meaning I don't get refinanced.  But it's more than that.  It's about information being correct and uniform.  The use of the model agains the same info but resuling in far different scores is just furstrating and NO ONE at either organization can do anything other than blame the other.

[haulingthescoreup]

Oh, I see. You have an Experian FICO from a mortgage lender.

OK, scratch all the above.

I'm pretty sure that mortgage-pulled reports come with the top four negative reasons, although I don't remember if we are technically allowed to see them. If you can get your hands on the negative reasons, see what's different on the EX report from the EQ and TU reports.

It's true that every formula tilts slightly differently (maybe TU "likes" mortgages, EQ "likes" minimal total balances, etc.), but with substantially similar reports, that's an awfully big score difference.

I know you said that they're practically the same, but what is on EX (or not on) that's different from the other two? Especially less obvious things like age of oldest account, the dates and severities of any negatives, and so forth. Does EX have a public record that's not on the other two?

[Anonymous]

Hang on Hauling...I'm working on that info as we speak......

[Anonymous]

Hauling...I just pulled my FICO generated score for TU and it has dropped as well.  607 from 617 a week ago.

See below for data copied from the "reason" area of each score.  I just realized that a different model of FICO is being applied to each.

EXP
Number of inquiries impacted score.
Length of time since legal item filed or collection item reported (Code:20)
588
Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:40)
Bureau
Experian
Score Model
Experian Fair Isaac V2
Borrower
Borrower
File
BXP1
Insufficient or lack of revolving account information (Code:16)
Length of time accounts have been established

TU

617

Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:040)
Bureau
TransUnion
Score Model
FICORisk Score Classic 04
Borrower
Borrower,
File
BTU1
Lack of recent revolving account information (Code:016)
Lack of recent bank revolving information (Code:015)

Length of time since derogatory public record or collection is too short (Code:020)

EQ

Too many inquiries within the last 12 months (Code:8)
622
Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:40)
Bureau
Equifax
Score Model
Equifax Beacon 5.0
Borrower
Borrower
File
BEQ1
Length of time since derogatory public record or collection is too short (Code:20)
Length of time accounts have been established (Code:14)

Looking at the lender generated reports, the info is almost identical in the reason area of the score.

Here's the run down...

All three have the same collections, except for one.  They are all "paid" on TU and EXP.

One collecton at EQ that has been "paid" but hasn't populated through to EQ as of yet.

All accounts in "good standing" are the same.

One account says that it's in "dispute" status but is under "re investigation" and that' s the same across them all.

No pulbic records on either of them.

Length of history is pretty much the same.  TU actually lists me longer than the others.

There will be a collection deletion coming per a letter I just received.  That will ONLY be on the EQ side as it's not on the others.

EXP not reports the revolving account correctly but TU and EQ do not.  They both say I have 4 installment accounts when I do not.  But the EQ score has been creeping up little by little and is in the territory I need it.

So literally these things are virtually the same. 

Don't know if I should contest the status of the "installment" vs "revolving" with TU like I did with EXP.  it's not right but when I did that with EXP my score dropped when FICO is applied but went up on the FAKO score. 

I simply cannot discern what is the issue here other than it's a joke.

[haulingthescoreup]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hauling...I just pulled my FICO generated score for TU and it has dropped as well.  607 from 617 a week ago.

See below for data copied from the "reason" area of each score.  I just realized that a different model of FICO is being applied to each.

EXP  588

Number of inquiries impacted score.
Length of time since legal item filed or collection item reported (Code:20)
Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:40)
Insufficient or lack of revolving account information (Code:16)
Length of time accounts have been established

Experian Fair Isaac V2

TU  617

Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:040)

Lack of recent revolving account information (Code:016)
Lack of recent bank revolving information (Code:015)

Length of time since derogatory public record or collection is too short (Code:020)

FICORisk Score Classic 04

EQ  622

Too many inquiries within the last 12 months (Code:8)
Derogatory public record or collection filed (Code:40)

Length of time since derogatory public record or collection is too short (Code:20)
Length of time accounts have been established (Code:14)

Equifax Beacon 5.0

Here's the run down...

All three have the same collections, except for one.  They are all "paid" on TU and EXP.

One collecton at EQ that has been "paid" but hasn't populated through to EQ as of yet.

All accounts in "good standing" are the same.

One account says that it's in "dispute" status but is under "re investigation" and that' s the same across them all.

No pulbic records on either of them.

Length of history is pretty much the same.  TU actually lists me longer than the others.

There will be a collection deletion coming per a letter I just received.  That will ONLY be on the EQ side as it's not on the others.

EXP not reports the revolving account correctly but TU and EQ do not.  They both say I have 4 installment accounts when I do not.  But the EQ score has been creeping up little by little and is in the territory I need it.

So literally these things are virtually the same. 

Don't know if I should contest the status of the "installment" vs "revolving" with TU like I did with EXP.  it's not right but when I did that with EXP my score dropped when FICO is applied but went up on the FAKO score. 

I simply cannot discern what is the issue here other than it's a joke.

---

I did some cut-and-paste work to re-display the negative codes. (It's hard to get formatted info to display properly when pasted here.)

Are the reason codes for all three reports now in the correct order? If not, please feel free to rearrange them.

Each bureau commissions its own FICO score formula, so yes, you have three different score formats. (That's normal.) Your lender pulled TU 04 instead of the TU 98 that we're still stuck with here, but that's not surprising.

Do you have a public record too, or just collections? What is the date of the most recent collection on all three accounts?

If you have no revolving (i.e., CC) accounts reporting, that definitely hurts. And if the one that switched from installment to revolving status has a high utilization (balance is high compared to credit limit), that's not good. It appears that having three open revolving accounts with a mininal balance on one and $0 on the others is very helpful, and I notice that one of the dings mentions revolving.

I have to get to work, I'm afraid, but I'll keep looking at this. In the meantime, I hope that other members will post on this thread, especially those who have experience with major derogs.

In the meantime, just to confirm, do I have these negative reasons in the correct order? That's important, because the first-listed reason is the most important. That would be pretty surprising if "too many inqs" outweighed a collection or public record, but it could be.

[haulingthescoreup]

Oh, I meant to add that since we can no longer pull our EX FICO's, it's very possible that the myFICO customer service people can't access your EX report, so that can't give you any input on it. They might not have the right to see it, since myFICO and Experian no longer play together (nicely or otherwise.)

[Anonymous]

Hauling just a quick note here.  (I'm eating lunch  :-)  )  The info was copy and pasted just as it is in my reports. So the order is correct on the reason codes etc.

[creditchild]

i truly understand your pain. the truth of the matter is no here in this forum can tell you how this scoring thing works. people can only speculate how it works.

if i show my credit report you wouldnt beleive my scores. i have  2bks and a recent foreclosure and scores are almost at 700. its strange i know, i recently

got a car loan,and me and the people at the dealership couldn believe it. so thats proof that this scoring stuff is crazy. its all random. no one but them knows how this is

formulated. think about it no one according to the cras has that perfect credit. its all a numbers game they play. i say wait a few months and let everything

settle and look at it agin. but remember these people do things diffrently, thats why they wont share how they do it with you. thats why i say people here are only speculating. so again, just let things adjust.