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New Vantage Score coming

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Established Contributor

New Vantage Score coming

I'm quite certain that this has already been discussed - I just can't find any current discussions.

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall. It also looks like those of us with a high number of cards and high credit limits may now start to get dinged for having them. The rationale is that with high limits comes the potential for high debt very quickly.

 

This from The Points Guy:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/changes-credit-score-calculations/

 

And for all of those who have lots of cards open, your score could be hurt as well. VantageScore will punish those with exorbitantly high credit card limits because they have the ability to rack up high credit card debt quickly.

Over $200,000 in credit across 12 cards.

FICO ranges from 791 -824 as of 07/26/2019
Message 1 of 34
33 REPLIES 33
Highlighted
Moderator Emeritus

Re: New Vantage Score coming


@Berk wrote:

I'm quite certain that this has already been discussed - I just can't find any current discussions.

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall. It also looks like those of us with a high number of cards and high credit limits may now start to get dinged for having them. The rationale is that with high limits comes the potential for high debt very quickly.

 

This from The Points Guy:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/changes-credit-score-calculations/

 

And for all of those who have lots of cards open, your score could be hurt as well. VantageScore will punish those with exorbitantly high credit card limits because they have the ability to rack up high credit card debt quickly.


Do you have any more good news for us? Just pulled an Experian three bureau report and in the past (March 28, 2017) and today I found a shock. The March Scores were FICO 08 and the April 28, 2017 Scores are PLUS. What the hay ...! Did nothing to change anything in my life style other than get older.

Starting Score: 300
Current Score: 850
Goal Score: 850


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Message 2 of 34
Highlighted
Established Contributor

Re: New Vantage Score coming


@Dinosaur wrote:

@Berk wrote:

I'm quite certain that this has already been discussed - I just can't find any current discussions.

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall. It also looks like those of us with a high number of cards and high credit limits may now start to get dinged for having them. The rationale is that with high limits comes the potential for high debt very quickly.

 

This from The Points Guy:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/changes-credit-score-calculations/

 

And for all of those who have lots of cards open, your score could be hurt as well. VantageScore will punish those with exorbitantly high credit card limits because they have the ability to rack up high credit card debt quickly.


Do you have any more good news for us? Just pulled an Experian three bureau report and in the past (March 28, 2017) and today I found a shock. The March Scores were FICO 08 and the April 28, 2017 Scores are PLUS. What the hay ...! Did nothing to change anything in my life style other than get older.


Uugh, I just saved a lot of money on car insurance?

Over $200,000 in credit across 12 cards.

FICO ranges from 791 -824 as of 07/26/2019
Message 3 of 34
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Super Contributor

Re: New Vantage Score coming

Hi Berk!  Thanks for the heads up.  A few quick thoughts right away, but I will try to write more late tonight.  You write:

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall.

 

Just to clarify, the three credit bureaus (aka CRAs) are not switching to VantageScore.  VantageScore is a model that was created many years ago as a combined effort of the three credit bureaus, in an effort to compete with and provide an alternative to the arguable monopoly that FICO had on credit scoring..  As new models are released (VS 2, VS 3, and now VS 4) this consortium of the Big Three is always behind those models.

 

FICO will remain the dominant company in the credit scoring world for at least the next few years (except in the area of landlords pulling credit scores on prospective tenants -- Vantage has a definite edge over FICO there).  Quite possibly five, seven or even ten years from now, FICO will still be the overwhelming choice for lenders and CC issuers (though who knows?).

 

Furthermore, even when lenders like a particular family of models (e.g. FICO or Vantage) they tend to be very cautious about migrating to that company's latest model.  It's been 2.5 years since FICO 9 was released, for example, and we still have few lenders or CC companies using it for their decisions.  So even if a lender was a big user of Vantage, they won't migrate to V4 any time soon.

 

All that said, I remain immensely interested in this issue of trended data and how creditors and scoring systems will be using them.  So thanks for the heads up!  Here are a few more links:

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/vs40-intro

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/news-story/226/vantagescore-solutions-debuts-vantagescore-40-credit-sc...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickclements/2017/03/31/3-big-changes-to-credit-scores-that-will-impact...

 

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/vantagescore-4-0-new-credit-scoring-model/

 

PS.  I haven't read them yet.

Message 4 of 34
Highlighted
Established Contributor

Re: New Vantage Score coming

CreditGuyinDixie,

 

Thanks much for the clarifications. Something I didn't know. So, it looks like for the near future FICO will still be the score of choice for lenders I'm guessing.

Over $200,000 in credit across 12 cards.

FICO ranges from 791 -824 as of 07/26/2019
Message 5 of 34
Highlighted
Moderator

Re: New Vantage Score coming


@CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

Hi Berk!  Thanks for the heads up.  A few quick thoughts right away, but I will try to write more late tonight.  You write:

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall.

 

Just to clarify, the three credit bureaus (aka CRAs) are not switching to VantageScore.  VantageScore is a model that was created many years ago as a combined effort of the three credit bureaus, in an effort to compete with and provide an alternative to the arguable monopoly that FICO had on credit scoring..  As new models are released (VS 2, VS 3, and now VS 4) this consortium of the Big Three is always behind those models.

 

FICO will remain the dominant company in the credit scoring world for at least the next few years (except in the area of landlords pulling credit scores on prospective tenants -- Vantage has a definite edge over FICO there).  Quite possibly five, seven or even ten years from now, FICO will still be the overwhelming choice for lenders and CC issuers (though who knows?).

 

Furthermore, even when lenders like a particular family of models (e.g. FICO or Vantage) they tend to be very cautious about migrating to that company's latest model.  It's been 2.5 years since FICO 9 was released, for example, and we still have few lenders or CC companies using it for their decisions.  So even if a lender was a big user of Vantage, they won't migrate to V4 any time soon.

 

All that said, I remain immensely interested in this issue of trended data and how creditors and scoring systems will be using them.  So thanks for the heads up!  Here are a few more links:

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/vs40-intro

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/news-story/226/vantagescore-solutions-debuts-vantagescore-40-credit-sc...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickclements/2017/03/31/3-big-changes-to-credit-scores-that-will-impact...

 

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/vantagescore-4-0-new-credit-scoring-model/

 

PS.  I haven't read them yet.


@CreditGuyInDixie

 

Great info.  Something a lot of posters here should read.  Question for you regarding the highlighted area.  Why is that?  Purely because the Vantage scores are cheaper or is there another reason?

Message 6 of 34
Highlighted
Moderator Emeritus

Re: New Vantage Score coming


@Irish80 wrote:

@CreditGuyInDixie wrote:

Hi Berk!  Thanks for the heads up.  A few quick thoughts right away, but I will try to write more late tonight.  You write:

 

Looks like the three major CRB's are switching to Vantage Score in the fall.

 

Just to clarify, the three credit bureaus (aka CRAs) are not switching to VantageScore.  VantageScore is a model that was created many years ago as a combined effort of the three credit bureaus, in an effort to compete with and provide an alternative to the arguable monopoly that FICO had on credit scoring..  As new models are released (VS 2, VS 3, and now VS 4) this consortium of the Big Three is always behind those models.

 

FICO will remain the dominant company in the credit scoring world for at least the next few years (except in the area of landlords pulling credit scores on prospective tenants -- Vantage has a definite edge over FICO there).  Quite possibly five, seven or even ten years from now, FICO will still be the overwhelming choice for lenders and CC issuers (though who knows?).

 

Furthermore, even when lenders like a particular family of models (e.g. FICO or Vantage) they tend to be very cautious about migrating to that company's latest model.  It's been 2.5 years since FICO 9 was released, for example, and we still have few lenders or CC companies using it for their decisions.  So even if a lender was a big user of Vantage, they won't migrate to V4 any time soon.

 

All that said, I remain immensely interested in this issue of trended data and how creditors and scoring systems will be using them.  So thanks for the heads up!  Here are a few more links:

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/vs40-intro

 

https://your.vantagescore.com/news-story/226/vantagescore-solutions-debuts-vantagescore-40-credit-sc...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickclements/2017/03/31/3-big-changes-to-credit-scores-that-will-impact...

 

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/vantagescore-4-0-new-credit-scoring-model/

 

PS.  I haven't read them yet.


@CreditGuyInDixie

 

Great info.  Something a lot of posters here should read.  Question for you regarding the highlighted area.  Why is that?  Purely because the Vantage scores are cheaper or is there another reason?


Price is the typical reason quoted for using VS: an internal Chase employee stated that baldly (on a different forum) when they were trialing Vantage - FICO $$$, Vantage $$, Internal $ (development costs not withstanding).

 

That said in this case I suspect it's a simpler rational choice: if you look into most of the rental check applications, they're backed by the bureaus themselves; why pay FICO money when you can peddle your own score?

 

I suspect that's actually how it works with the majority of credit monitoring and other products though I never really put that together until just now: if you see a bureau behind it, it's probably Vantage; Experian really is the only one of the three to step away from that with their FICO 8 and additional scores they're now offering in their own CMS, and that only happened like 5ish months ago which is recent.

 

I'd also suggest renters have a higher population of underbanked consumers than home owners, so if I were a landlord, I'd go with the score that most accurately predicted folks with limited credit information... and that's probably VS 3 out of the current market, I know FICO was trying to play catchup, not sure where that competition is between it and FICO 9 but since I can't get a FICO 9 today, off we go with Vantage.




        
Message 7 of 34
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: New Vantage Score coming

Oh and this one quote which I personally love really tells you all that's needed to know about the relationship these days:

 

"VantageScore 4.0 offers predictive performance lift across all credit industries. In particular, the incorporation of trended credit data across an expanded applicant pool, and the 5.4 percent lift in predictiveness associated with mortgage origination, positions VantageScore 4.0 as an ideal tool for the mortgage market, in which only outdated FICO models are currently accepted as the result of an effectively government-sanctioned monopoly."

 

Smiley Happy




        
Message 8 of 34
Highlighted
Valued Contributor

Re: New Vantage Score coming

Reading through the particulars of Vantage 4.0, I see that it mentions "trended credit data", which if I understand it correctly, would mean that it does not do a static calculation of utilization at that particular moment, instead looking at utilization and other areas over time.  

 

How do some of you feel about this?  I am sure as far as getting instant gratification when we bring down utilization, we would not like this as much, however it does seem that this would be a bit more "fair" (not that credit scoring cares about that...) when there is a temporary spike in util for whatever reason.  i guess the million dollar question is if trended data is any better predictor of future credit problems than static scoring is.  

 

Just wondering how some of you feel about this aspect of vantage 4.0?  I would certainly think that FICO has kicked this around and obviously must feel that an instant static picture is better, at least as of now.  Who knows in FICO 10 and beyond.  

 

 

Year 2012: All Scores in the 520 range, during a foreclosure, CC Settlement and high UTIL. Very ugly days...
May 2020: EX8: 850; EQ8: 850; TU8: 850 -- Middle Mortgage Score: 824
In My Wallet: Discover $73.7K; Cap1 Venture $42.7K; Amex ED $38K; Amex Optima $2.5K; Amex Delta Gold $18K; Citi Costco $19.5K; Cap1 Plat $8.4K; Barclay $7K; BoA Plat $21.6K; Citi TY Pref $19K; US Bank $4K; Dell $5K; Care Credit $6.5K. Total Revolving CL: $277K
My UTIL: Less than 1% - Only allow about $10 a month to report, on one account. .
Message 9 of 34
Highlighted
Valued Contributor

Re: New Vantage Score coming


@Revelate wrote:

Oh and this one quote which I personally love really tells you all that's needed to know about the relationship these days:

 

"VantageScore 4.0 offers predictive performance lift across all credit industries. In particular, the incorporation of trended credit data across an expanded applicant pool, and the 5.4 percent lift in predictiveness associated with mortgage origination, positions VantageScore 4.0 as an ideal tool for the mortgage market, in which only outdated FICO models are currently accepted as the result of an effectively government-sanctioned monopoly."

 

Smiley Happy


Zing!   Smiley Happy

 

 

Year 2012: All Scores in the 520 range, during a foreclosure, CC Settlement and high UTIL. Very ugly days...
May 2020: EX8: 850; EQ8: 850; TU8: 850 -- Middle Mortgage Score: 824
In My Wallet: Discover $73.7K; Cap1 Venture $42.7K; Amex ED $38K; Amex Optima $2.5K; Amex Delta Gold $18K; Citi Costco $19.5K; Cap1 Plat $8.4K; Barclay $7K; BoA Plat $21.6K; Citi TY Pref $19K; US Bank $4K; Dell $5K; Care Credit $6.5K. Total Revolving CL: $277K
My UTIL: Less than 1% - Only allow about $10 a month to report, on one account. .
Message 10 of 34
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