Opt Out Failure

[Booner72]

My brother opted out a few months back but today a Home Depot offer came in the mail for him.

How do you think this happened?   He opted out again online in case it didnt take.

This is pretty important bc he is hiding from a CA about a car repo.  Also on Credit Karma an old Wicks HSBC good standing account started reporting this month that was paid off back in 2003 or so.  Why would it do that?

[RobertEG]

The CRA blew it, unless the party obtained the name and address prior to the receipt by the CRA of the request to be excluded from lists provided to those with which he has no established business, credit, or pending initiation of credit.

I am not sure how opting out will shield him from CR access by a legitimate debt collector.  If they have permissible purpose, then the opt out restriction would not apply to their permissible access of his full CR.  It only applies to those that do not otherwise have a permissible purpose under section 604.

[pizzadude]

Has he shopped at homie depot recently ?  It is entirely possible that HD, like many retailers, can collect information at the point of sale, without relying on a CRA.

[Booner72]

No way did he go to Home Depot.  Not his store.

I know that the repo man CA can still come after him, but hoping if he doesnt apply for any credit, change address, use credit etc, the "alerts" that get sent out to CA's by the CRA's won't happen.

ROBERTEG - what do you think about that plan?

[MarineVietVet]

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@Booner72 wrote:

My brother opted out a few months back but today a Home Depot offer came in the mail for him.

How do you think this happened?   He opted out again online in case it didnt take.

This is pretty important bc he is hiding from a CA about a car repo.  Also on Credit Karma an old Wicks HSBC good standing account started reporting this month that was paid off back in 2003 or so.  Why would it do that?

---

It happens because no system is perfect. I know that is oversimplied but that's what it comes down to. Some things are bound to slip through the cracks.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 3/11 pulled by lender- 835, EQ - 2/11-816, TU - 2/11-782

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

[RobertEG]

I am not familiar with the CRAs sending out "alerts.

The FCRA restricts the ability of a CRA to provide credit report information without the consumers consent by requiring that the person requesting the CR to provide a statement of permissible purpose that is authorized under one or more subsections of section 604.  Debt collectors use the authority, and have for years, of subsection 604(a)(3)(D) to obtain a consumer's credit report.  If the debt collector has sufficient information to identity the consumer, then they can obtain the consumer's full credit report.

Subsection 604(c)(1) authorizes the CRAs to also furnish a credit report with regard to credit transactions not authorized by the consumer, but has two restrictions, one set forth in subsection 604(c)(1)(B), and the other in subsection 604(c)(2).  The first provision requires that the requested credit report information mustbe for the purpose of offering "a firm offer of credit or insurance," and the second restriction is that if the CRA grants the request, they are restricted only to providing the consumer's "name and address."

A debt collector does NOT meet condition one, so if they do not claim access under subsection 604(a)(3)(D) based on their clear collection authority, they cannot legally obtain even the consumer's name and address by use of the so-called "promotional offer" provision of subsection 604(c)(1)(B).  They are not offering a firm offer of credit.

The CRAs "may furnish a consumer report under the following circumstances (i.e., they have a specific permissible purpose set forth in section 604) and no other." FCRA 604(a).  So I dont see how a CRA could be sending out "alerts" regarding information in any consumer file.

They do sell lists authorized under subsection 604(c)(1)(B) to those wishing to send "firm" offers for credit.  The "opt-out" provision of section 604(e) provides the consumer the ability to be excluded from such lists. 

With all of that verbage aside, a debt collector is not authorized to obtain such "lists," and the CRAs cannot legally sell "alerts" regarding a consumer's credit information for purposes related to debt collection.  So I dont see where the asserted CRA practice is coming from.  Does anyone have evidence of such a practice?

If the debt collector has sufficient identifying information to request a consumer's credit report, they can get the entire report without resort to any such "lists."  With no change in address, I dont see that as being very difficult.  I dont see opting out as providing much of a hiding place.

[haulingthescoreup]

There's often several months' delay before offers dry up completely.

So for instance, maybe Citi/HD bought a list of potential customers via a soft pull with a promo code, and his name was on it. The list comes in a week or two after they ordered it, and it sits on someone's to-do list until they wade through all the other stuff higher up the list, get their holiday shopping done, lose a couple hours of work every day to random office parties, come back from vacation, and finally send out the "pre-approved to apply" offers that Citi loves so much.

How long ago exactly did he opt out?

[llecs]

I'll throw in that even though DW and I were opted out, we still got offers from Best Buy, Discover, and Amex to name a couple. They'll purchase lists totally unrelated to credit or your credit reports. I noticed in the Amex and Discover offer to DW, they listed her first initial and last name. Nowhere in her CRs is that format listed in the former names section. However, we also had a magazine subscription come in with the same. Somewhere someone purchased a list and it had her info on it. And I don't think her CC offers were pre-approvals. Just fishin' for business.

[pizzadude]

With regards to CRAs notifiying/send alerts to CAs about consumers ( i.e. you and me ):

This is from experian, I am sure that the other CRAs offer similar services.   The consensus is that opt-ing out will remove you from CRA promotional inquiries, but I have no idea if opt-ing out removes you from this type of CRA data mining.

http://www.experian.com/consumer-information/debt-collection.html

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[Booner72]

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@RobertEG wrote:

I am not familiar with the CRAs sending out "alerts.

The FCRA restricts the ability of a CRA to provide credit report information without the consumers consent by requiring that the person requesting the CR to provide a statement of permissible purpose that is authorized under one or more subsections of section 604.  Debt collectors use the authority, and have for years, of subsection 604(a)(3)(D) to obtain a consumer's credit report.  If the debt collector has sufficient information to identity the consumer, then they can obtain the consumer's full credit report.

Subsection 604(c)(1) authorizes the CRAs to also furnish a credit report with regard to credit transactions not authorized by the consumer, but has two restrictions, one set forth in subsection 604(c)(1)(B), and the other in subsection 604(c)(2).  The first provision requires that the requested credit report information mustbe for the purpose of offering "a firm offer of credit or insurance," and the second restriction is that if the CRA grants the request, they are restricted only to providing the consumer's "name and address."

A debt collector does NOT meet condition one, so if they do not claim access under subsection 604(a)(3)(D) based on their clear collection authority, they cannot legally obtain even the consumer's name and address by use of the so-called "promotional offer" provision of subsection 604(c)(1)(B).  They are not offering a firm offer of credit.

The CRAs "may furnish a consumer report under the following circumstances (i.e., they have a specific permissible purpose set forth in section 604) and no other." FCRA 604(a).  So I dont see how a CRA could be sending out "alerts" regarding information in any consumer file.

They do sell lists authorized under subsection 604(c)(1)(B) to those wishing to send "firm" offers for credit.  The "opt-out" provision of section 604(e) provides the consumer the ability to be excluded from such lists. 

With all of that verbage aside, a debt collector is not authorized to obtain such "lists," and the CRAs cannot legally sell "alerts" regarding a consumer's credit information for purposes related to debt collection.  So I dont see where the asserted CRA practice is coming from.  Does anyone have evidence of such a practice?

If the debt collector has sufficient identifying information to request a consumer's credit report, they can get the entire report without resort to any such "lists."  With no change in address, I dont see that as being very difficult.  I dont see opting out as providing much of a hiding place.

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Wow, I'm surprised you haven't read about this.  I just now went to the big 3's websites and used the search feature to search"Ability to pay" and it takes you right to the portion of their websites that is designed to get CA's business.  Those CA's can sign up to get alerts if we start paying debt, apply for mortgage, etc.  IDK if the CA in question HAS to have the PP w/ the consumer to get the alert, but I doubt it.  I am under the firm belief that THAT is where those bureaus get some BIG MONEY!!!!