Opt Out Failure

[Booner72]

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@pizzadude wrote:

With regards to CRAs notifiying/send alerts to CAs about consumers ( i.e. you and me ):

This is from experian, I am sure that the other CRAs offer similar services.   The consensus is that opt-ing out will remove you from CRA promotional inquiries, but I have no idea if opt-ing out removes you from this type of CRA data mining.

http://www.experian.com/consumer-information/debt-collection.html

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YES!!  This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.  I just didn't think I could copy/paste from their websites.  !!!!!!!  I seriously doubt that the CRA makes sure the CA in question has a PP to have us on their alert list.

THIS IS HOW THE PEOPLE APPLYING FOR MORTGAGES GET THOSE COLLECTION AGENCIES COMING OUT OF THE BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great Post, Pizza!!

[Anonymous]

And so then, opting out, and/or freezing your credit files does no good whatsoever --- is that what I am reading? 

[RobertEG]

Great post, and great info.

I still assert that any information coming from a CRA MUST first have a certification of permissible purpose submitted to the CRA.

FCRA 604(f)(2) requires that any person making a request for a consumer credit report, which includes promotional requests for name and address under section 604(c), MUST provide the CRA with a certification of a permissible purpose.  Section 607(a) defines the compliance procedure to be used.  The furnishing of any consumer report requires that the requestor certify a permissible purpose under one or more the subsections of section 604.  They must certify the permissible purpose, and certify that the information "will be used for no other purpose."  It states that the CRA must make reasonable effort to verify the uses certified by the requestor. 

I would presume that since the listed services are being offered to debt collectors, they have a legitimate permissible purpose.  I think that is implied in the advertising.

However, if such services are being offered without first obtaining a certification of permissilbe purpose from the requestor, then it would, in my opinion, be a violation of sections 604(f)(2) and 607(a).

It would be interesting if someone who feels that a party has been provided information by a CRA without their first obtaining a certification of permissible purpose or for purposes other than the one certified pursued the matter by requring the CRA to produce the certification upon which they furnished the CR information.

Any consumer is entitled to receive any information in their credit file by submitting to the CRA a request under FCRA 609(a)(1) and (2).  It costs $11.00, but it might be interesting to see how the CRAs are covering their certification requirement.

[Booner72]

Yes, this is a wonderful discussion.

But, Robert, you have far more faith than I.  I would bet my new house that there are CA's out there getting these "triggers" on people's profile that they have no business getting.

I see the CRA's as snakes in the grass.  EQ and EX are refusing to delete collection accounts that I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt should not be on my reports.  What can I do about it but go to small claims and lose?  How can you sue a CRA??

[LS2982]

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@Booner72 wrote:

My brother opted out a few months back but today a Home Depot offer came in the mail for him.

How do you think this happened?   He opted out again online in case it didnt take.

This is pretty important bc he is hiding from a CA about a car repo.  Also on Credit Karma an old Wicks HSBC good standing account started reporting this month that was paid off back in 2003 or so.  Why would it do that?

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Did he permanently opt out??

[Revelate]

Robert et al,

By definition don't the CA's (assuming they purchased the debt from an OC) have a right to that information legally as you've already given consent?  Certainly in a lender's case, they have the right to do soft pulls at any time and that's effectively codified I believe in pretty much all of their loan agreements.  Does that right translate to the CA when the outstanding loan is sold to them? 

I'm almost assured it translates on bundled mortgages, would it not for other types of loans similarly?

I'm not entirely certain it matters too much anyway, address data is such a fungable thing for the CRAs: I've lived in the same place for the last six years, and one CRA has the correct address (albeit recently with my activity I suspect), another still has an address from seven years ago, and another has an address from 13 years ago listed as "current"... and I've moved five times to different states since that one.  Strangely the addresses reported are backwards from what I'd expect: EX (west coast where I live) is the 13 year one, TU (midwest where I have lived) is the six year old one, and EQ with their best resolution being on the east coast is the correct one.  

[Booner72]

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@LS2982 wrote:

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@Booner72 wrote:

My brother opted out a few months back but today a Home Depot offer came in the mail for him.

How do you think this happened?   He opted out again online in case it didnt take.

This is pretty important bc he is hiding from a CA about a car repo.  Also on Credit Karma an old Wicks HSBC good standing account started reporting this month that was paid off back in 2003 or so.  Why would it do that?

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Did he permanently opt out??

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Online 5 year.  Did it May....June at the latest.

[Anonymous]

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@Booner72 wrote:
I would bet my new house that there are CA's out there getting these "triggers" on people's profile that they have no business getting.

I see the CRA's as snakes in the grass. 

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+1 
All I know is, when we recently got back into the credit world, this past September, after living on the cash system for too many years, we started getting all kinds of letters from collection agencies for debts that neither my husband nor I ever incurred. I don't know whose debts they were, but they were NOT ours. Those collection agencies got our name and address from "somewhere" and, I believe you are correct Booner regarding their getting triggers from the CRAs that they have no business getting.  They (the CAs) certainly do not care if the info (triggers) they're buying from the CRAs is "accurate."  And, obviously, the CRAs could care less if the information they are reporting is "accurate" as is evident from Booner's testimony of having several things on her CRs that do not belong to her that the CRAs refuse to delete.  YET, creditors, CRAs, and CAs ALL boast loud and long about reporting accurate information. 

There are more than a few snakes in the grass!!!  I believe they are in serious collusion with each other.  

[RobertEG]

Debt collectors dont rely upon a right of transfer of authority from your prior relationship with the OC.  They rely upon the provision of FCRA 604(a)(1)(3)(A), which gives permissible pull authority based on their collection of the debt.

No, I dont assume the CRAs always play by the book.  All I am saying is that the FCRA says what the rules are, and gives the consumer the right to any information in their credit file, and thus the ability to view the information required to determine if they have violated the rules.  It is, I presume, one reason why congress gave the consumer the express right, under section 609(a)(1) and (2), to obtain both any information reported to a CRA, as well as the name of the party who reported.

If the CRAs are releasing consumer information without a permissible purpose, they can be compelled to provide the statement of permissible purpose that they relied upon.