Question about disputing duplicate state tax lien.

[AQ]

My TU report shows that I have two state tax liens, both filed in the jurisdiction.  They are a year apart and for differing amounts.  I am certain they are for the same debt.  According to some legal advice received through a website, two attorneys suggested this should be disputed as it's two reports for the same debt.  Does anyone agree or disagree with this? 

In regards to disputing one of these debts, I have some questions.  First, I should say that the first debt is for a significantly lesser amount than the second and is a year older.  My TU report says the first should fall off in 11/15 and the second one should fall off sometime in 2016 (both after ten years).  That being said:

1.  Which would be the one I should dispute?  I would prefer to dispute the one that's slightly newer, figuring the oldest one would hurt my score less and would fall off sooner.  But the newer one does show an amount valid at the time, as it was updated to a newer amount, but still part of the same old debt.  Perhaps it can be updated with a new lien at will, but maybe the old one has to be removed?  idk.  I do know that only my TU shows both liens--EX and EQ only show the one that is slightly more recent.

2.  My TU report says that both of these will fall off at the 10 year mark.  There's varying opinion out there about when or if unpaid liens fall off, but I'm planning on having it paid off in full before the 10 year mark on either of these.  So, with that being said, if these were going to fall off in the next year or two, due to the 10 year mark for unpaid liens, is my paying off this lien going to alter that so it stays on for 7 more years, as per the 7 years-for-paid-liens standard?  I'm paying it off regardless, but I am curious and concerned about how this might affect the time these liens remain on my report(s). 

Thanks for any help, folks! 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't dispute anything until you find out for sure if there is in fact 2 tax liens against you.

Either look it up or go to your court house where it is filed and see what is recorded. 

It is also hard to dispute judgments and liens because the courts do not furnish that information to the CRAs.  It is done through a 3rd party.

[RobertEG]

Yes, you can dispute, as one is clearly duplicative and inaccurate.

I would not attempt to pick and choose which deletion might be more beneficial.  The one to assert deletion is the ohe that is inaccurate, as documented in your dispute.

As for how to dispute, as stated, tax liens are not usually "reported" to CRAs.  They are placed in consumer credit files by way of public records searches conducted by the CRAs in order to make their files more complete, and thus more valuable to their customers.

That is the reason why all disputes related to public record information are specifically excluded from the direct dispute process.

Your dispute must be filed via a CRA.  The CRA dispute process extends broadly to "any information of record in a consumer's file" and thus covers the psoting by the CRA.

The exclusion date for tax liens is specifically stated in FCRA 605(a) as no later than 7 years from the date the lien is paid.

You thus don't start the running of any exclusion period until the tax lien is paid.  Governments get special consideration, as tax liens are the sole exception to use of date paid as the begin of the exclusion period for the adverse item. 

[AQ]

Thank you. 

To clarify, both liens appear to be correct at the time they were filed.  This was for an arrears of child support, and interest accured and some increase to the arrears was acquired.  So it's the same debt but there was an increase to the amount owed.  But it seems arbitrary to put place a new lien anytime a debt increases when it's a debt owed to the same place for the same reason.  Otherwise, in theory, a new lien or court record could be created for every penny that accrued due to interest. 

Can you offer me a little clarificaiton about something? 

I understand the part about the tax liens staying on my record for 7 years until after they are paid.  But I have also read that they only stay on for 10 years if they are unpaid, but are renewable.  Even if that last part (about the unpaid time frame) is incorrect, why does my TU report show an expected drop-off date of 10 years from the dates filed for each lien, respectively?  There seems to be much disagreement about the unpaid time frames, though I personally am not disagreeing with you--I'm just curious. 

If the liens stay on until 7 years after they are paid, does the fact that they are much older liens (though still not yet fully paid off) have less impact on my score, or does it matter since it's unpaid.  In other words, is a 10 year old unpaid lien less hurtful on a score than a 1 year old unpaid lien.  Will it help my scores once it shows as paid? 

Thanks for your help, guys!

[Anonymous]

Are you sure they are showing as a tax lien and not a judgment?  These are state, correct?

Judgments are removed 7 years from the filing date, paid or unpaid.

A tax lien stays for 7 years from date paid or indefinitely.  Though there are 2 CRAs that will remove them unpaid after 15 years and one after 10.

If it is a state lien, they would be renewable according to the laws of the state.

It is in the FCRA as far as how long they can report and from what dates it goes by and it says 7 years from date paid for a tax lien.

I still would not dispute until you find out for sure if they did record another lien.

[AQ]

Thanks,

Yup, I'm 100% sure they are showing as liens, at least according to my credit reports.  I did a screen print and saved an image in a Paint document, in case I need it for something, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to post on here as there's a little bit of identifiable information on here.  It says "STATE TAX LIEN" and the plaintiff listed as the Commonwealth of VA.  They are both filed in the same city circuit court, have different docket numbers, different amounts, and different file dates (9 months apart). 

It hasn't had an direct affect on me outside of my credit score until last month when, interestingly enough, my credit union refused to unsecure my credit card due to the lien being there.  I was told that, in theory, they'd approve me for an auto loan (collateral) but not an unsecured card, this despite goodt credit rebuilding after BK (2 secured loans paid off and on time, three credit cards with no late payments and low utililization, no baddies since BK 16 months ago, etc.).  I want to get a car loan before long, but figure I'll wait until I pay this "lien" off in full, if for not other reason than to possibly get a lower rate. 

I'm going to call the court tomorrow and see what they have to say about it.  I can't view it online, but as it relates to family court, such records are generally not viewable to the public.  All the more interesting that its on my credit report. 

TU must be the 10 year one, then.  My EX report does not show a fall-off date, but it only shows the one lien--the more recent--and the same for EQ.  My EQ and TU scores, though, are only 1 point difference between each other, so maybe that second record isn't hurting so badly, especially considering it is old. 

[AQ]

OK, I called the court and spoke with someone in the clerk's office, who subsequently had to ask someone else to find answers to most of my questions.  Here's all I now know:

1.  I have two recorded liens through DCSE (child suport agency).  The dollar amounts match what'son my credit report, as do the basic time periods.

2.  I was told to direct my inquiry to DCSE to find out why there are two liens.  The gentleman on the phone said he did not know, but stated twice that the records seemed to be from two different periods of time.  He agreed that it seemed arbitrary to create a new lien just because of an increase in the same debt, as that could result in numerous liens.

3.  I asked if it would be removed from the court record (as opposed to my credit report) after any period of time.  The gentleman said he thought perhaps after ten years, but that I'd need talk talk to the CRAs about that.  I reiterated I was referring to the court record, so he put me on hold, asked someone, and returned to say that was a legal question and would thus need to be addressed to an attorney. 

So that's all I know.  I'm very hesitant to bring this to the attention fo DCSE until it's completely paid off, as I don't want them creating yet another lien for a different dollar amount. 

I am concerned about something I read online, though.  Someone was paraphrasing what they read on Experian's site (somewhere).  It was suggesting that once I pay off this debt, it will actually hurt my score because the court record/credit report will be updated and thus start over the clock once again, as it will be showing a new activity. Any truth to this?  Seems crappy, if so.  Almost like double jeopardy.