Warrant of Debt

[Gondorf]

Hi Everyone!

I was served a 'Warrant of Debt' back in March of 2020.  To the best of my knowledge, the collection agency

never contacted me that they had purchased the debt.  The account is not being reported on my credit report.

I went to court and explained this to the judge, that I was unaware of the account in collections and was never

given the chance to validate or dispute the debt.  A trial date was set for September.  The plaintiff was required

to file a written BILL OF PARTICULARS by July 7th, 2020,  and the defendant (me) need to file a GROUNDS FOR

DEFENSE by August 7th, 2020.

The plaintiff, collection agency, sent me a copy of the BILL OF PARTICULARS on June 30th.  Included was the

same documents they presented in the Warrant of Dept:  Evidence of when the debt was purchased and a copy

of the last statement sent by the original creditor.

I sent the collection agency a copy of my GROUNDS FOR DEFENSE referring the the FAIR DEBT COLLECTIONS

PRACTICES ACT:

15 U.S.C. § 1692: 809. Validation of Debt.

(d) Legal Pleadings

A communication in the form of a formal pleading in a civil action shall not be treated as an initial communication for purposes

of subsection (a).

Subsection (a) basically say the the collection agency needs to contact the consumer that they have purchased the account

and that I have 30 days to dispute.

In response, their attorney has now sent me an amended BILL OF PARTICULARS that includes a copy of a letter, supposedly

sent to me on December 31st, 2019, stating that they have bought the debt and that I have 30 days to dispute it.

So here's my question:

If the debt collector had legitimately contacted me, and they were not reporting the account to any of the 3 credit bureaus, I would have

had to dispute the debt directly with the collection agency.  Who exactly mediates over a direct dispute between myself and

the collections agency?

Hypothetically:  They say the accounts mine, I say it's not.  They're not reporting the account to the credit bureaus.  

So, the next step is for the collection agency to file a Warrant of Debt.  However, honestly, I was never contacted by this collection

agency, and as it stands that's my only defense.  But, even if the judge rules in my favor, I would then have to go back and dispute

the debt with the plaintiff?  That sound to me that it will end up back in court again.

I was under the impression that the credit bureaus mediated debt disputes first, and then if it couldn't be resolved, it went to 

court.

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous]

I was under the impression that the credit bureaus mediated debt disputes first, and then if it couldn't be resolved, it went to 

court.

 I don't think they do this, at all.

 You don't have to first have a collections on your CR to be pursued for it.

[vntrsc]

"Subsection (a) basically say the the collection agency needs to contact the consumer that they have purchased the accountand that I have 30 days to dispute."

The subsection you referenced does not mandate that a debt collector contact a consumer before filing a lawsuit.  

[Gondorf]

FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT

15 U.S.C. § 1692: 809. Validation of Debt

(a) Notice of debt; contents

Within five days after initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communiction or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing:

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT

15 U.S.C. § 1692: 809. Validation of Debt

(d) Legal Pleadings

A communication in the form of a formal pleading in a civil action shall not be treated as an initial communication for purposes of subsection (a).

What am I misunderstanding here?

[Anonymous]

But who said they had to have an initial communication with you? A suit is excluded from the definition of an initial communication. they have the right to choose whether to contact you or go straight to a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

What’s you’re misunderstanding is in order to activate your debt validation request rights, they have to give you an initial communication. In other words, if they want to call you and bug you and try to collect the debt they have to communicate with you and therefore they have to have initial communication and give you an opportunity to seek that validation, but if they just choose to sue you, they can do that as well.

They do not have to choose to "communicate" with you in attempt to collect the debt. They can just sue you. That’s a procedure to collect that they may seek without communication outside of the legal proceedings. 

[Anonymous]

So that exclusion means you still can’t exercise your debt validation rights because the lawsuit is not an initial communication. Understand?

i've got to edit that. that exclusion means you don't have any debt validation rights yet because until they send something to you that qualifies as an initial communication, your debt validation rights are not triggered.

[vntrsc]

1692f(a) states that after an initial communication, a debt collector must send you a notice containing the information outlined in that section including your right to demand validation within 30 days of receiving the notice.  If you send a validation request within 30 days of receiving the notice, the debt collector must cease collection efforts until it validates the debt.  

1692g(d) states that a communication in the form of a legal pleading (such as a summons and complaint) is NOT an initial communication that triggers the notice requirement in subsection (a).  Receiving a summons and compliant or warrant of debt does not provide you with the right to send a validation request.  

[Anonymous]

Exactly so they have chosen to sue you instead of contact you to try to collect. now if at some point they attempt to contact you to collect they will have to send you a Dunning notice within five days of the initial communication

[Anonymous]

OP, you should read the Scoring Primer linked at the top of my signature. It’ll teach you a lot.