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What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Your FICO® Scores can impact your loan interest rates, terms, approvals and more.
New Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Unfortuantely CC companies are in business to make money.. Any company that hard pulls your credit can indirectly affect any new credit that you may be able to get.. (Too many recent inquiries)  I'm sure sometimes people are declined credit with a new CC company which will keep you using the same card the you requested the CLI.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Last Inquiry 11/8/2018 (QS1 approved $300.00)
Fico Score Progression :
10/1/2018 EQ 530 TU 535 EX 540
12/16/2018 EQ 630 TU 621 EX 636
12/27/2018 EQ 639 TU 628 EX 634
6/6/2019 EQ 626 TU 565 EX 614
7/17/2019 EQ 644 TU 641 EX 678
In the garden till 1/1/2020
Message 11 of 35
Valued Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I actually think it would be a great thing of all self-initiated CLIs were HPs.  I know that goes against the grain in the community here where SP CLI requests happen almost as regularly as a trip to the restroom, something I myself am guilty of.  If all self-initiated CLIs resulted in a HP, you'd see far less CLI requests and/or people greatly limiting their CLI requests to only the card/cards that they really want/need them on.  It would be a level playing field if all CCCs did this.  Lender-initiated CLIs based on heavy usage of course would not require a HP, as that's not a [customer] request for additional credit.

 

I take no issue with CCCs hitting someone with a HP if they are requesting additional credit, which is what a CLI is.  I think many of us have gotten a bit greedy with all of the creditors out there that hand out CLIs like candy with simple SPs, so when we see a HP required it almost seems "wrong" when in fact it in most cases is really the "right" thing to do when looking at the subject through a neutral lens.


Agreed. I don't need the $25k I have available on Amex, but I took advantage of a 3X SP CLI at 61 days,and another $7k SP CLI 180 days after that.  $25k is my self imposed limit for requesting a CLI. 

 

It's crazy to me that Amex will give a 3X cli at 61 days. 


FICO 8 Starting Score

Current Scores






Message 12 of 35
Senior Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU. 

 

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500. 


Scores 1/2019:
Scores 7/2019:

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Message 13 of 35
Valued Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

@redpat wrote:

 

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring.  That is why some have AAs done against them.


The HP isn't done necessarily for the additional pull when they're already getting monthly SPs, it's simply because they want to leave a mark on your CR stating that you were requesting additional credit.  I'm sure all CCCs would like to see these marks, as they'd rather know (than not know) if and with whom they are requesting additional credit.


They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.

 

Amex is giving individuals new cards w/o HPs based on the data they have.  I love Amex, two business cards were freebies but the new personal cards do show up on your reports even though there was no HP.

MR | UR | Sky Miles | AA Miles | Hilton
Message 14 of 35
Senior Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@redpat wrote:

@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

@redpat wrote:

 

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring.  That is why some have AAs done against them.


The HP isn't done necessarily for the additional pull when they're already getting monthly SPs, it's simply because they want to leave a mark on your CR stating that you were requesting additional credit.  I'm sure all CCCs would like to see these marks, as they'd rather know (than not know) if and with whom they are requesting additional credit.


They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.

 

Amex is giving individuals new cards w/o HPs based on the data they have.  I love Amex, two business cards were freebies but the new personal cards do show up on your reports even though there was no HP.


I wouldn’t really use Amex as an example since Amex is like the “big brother” of credit card companies. 

 

The point is that hard pulls ensure other lenders see the request no matter if it was approved or not. If it’s denied and it’s a SP, it’s not visible to anyone except you. SP CLIs look like auto CLIs to the credit card companies doing their reviews without the HP on the file. 


Scores 1/2019:
Scores 7/2019:

Hover over my cards to see my limits!
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Message 15 of 35
Moderator Emeritus

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Arguably from an algorithm design perspective, it's the lenders that are doing SP approvals for credit extentions that are doing it wrong.

 

We may move to a time where either everyone is doing SP's or everyone goes back to HP's; probably really depends on how the lenders feel about this but it's probably a non-issue for the big lenders - I would ABSOLUTELY be comparing month over month pulls if I got them, and that includes some simple math to see if not only balances changed, but also if limits changed in addition to whether the actual score changed.

 

Smaller lenders may not do this, but the large lenders with more sophisticated analysis are looking at a whole lot more than that in the data stream.

 

At some point maybe I become the outlier, I haven't applied for a CLI since 2013 with 2x Amex and 1 x failed BOFA.




        
Message 16 of 35
Valued Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@Saeren wrote:

HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU. 

 

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500. 


Income is not shown anywhere on a CR. HP or Sp doesn't make a difference.  Income is self reported unless a creditor requests verification.  


FICO 8 Starting Score

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Message 17 of 35
Senior Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@MakingProgress wrote:

@Saeren wrote:

HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU. 

 

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500. 


Income is not shown anywhere on a CR. HP or Sp doesn't make a difference.  Income is self reported unless a creditor requests verification.  


They can get a picture of your liquid cash based on your charges and payments. 

 

That wasnt my point though. My point was that HP CLIs tend to be higher than SP ones. 


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Message 18 of 35
Super Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@redpat wrote:


They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.



They can see your CLIs, but without a HP they don't know if the CLI was a request for credit or if it was an auto-CLI.  That's really the whole point IMO and it can't be determined simply from a SP.

Message 19 of 35
Super Contributor

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???


@Saeren wrote:

My point was that HP CLIs tend to be higher than SP ones. 

I don't believe that to always be the case.  My two highest SP CLIs were $27k and $20k increases on my Lowe's and Amex cards.  I've also received 2 CLIs on my Citi card; One was a HP and one a SP.  The HP CLI resulted in a $5k gain, where the SP CLI resulted in a $7k gain.

Message 20 of 35