date of last activity vs date of first delinquency

[Anonymous]

    Someone had mentioned that if I offer a PFD or dispute something that may only effect the derogs date of last activity, and not effect the date of first delinquency which they said was the only important date to prospective loan originators.

   In all the reports I have ever pulled, the report only shows "date opened";  is that equivalent to date of first delinquency or date of last activity?  and is that true potential lenders(mortgage lender i.e.) dont care about the date of last activity only the date of first delinquency?   

  What I want to do is pay for delete a collection its only 110 dollars, its the only derog that is not a medical debt. Its the only negative item within the last 12 months.  So if i attempt this and it works great.  If I pay it and they say they will delete it, but then don't, and it refreshes the date on it, I am screwed as I will have neg items for another 12 months that are 12mo's or < in age.  So as much as I want to take a shot at this one I am scared to death.  I think I might as well just wait till after aug for it to be 12 months old, but my score is gonna be cutting it close, so by getting rid of this I will have no derogs that arent medical and it will help my score.

   Even though it sounds legit about the dola, and dofd thing, what throws me off is the derog I am thinking of taking care of is from qwest from 2010 aug approx.   When I applied for a loan in june of 2011 I was denied because of this showing current from oct 2010 which that part seems normal it took them time to report me though not much time.  When I pulled my report at the end of 2011 and even now it shows current as of aug 2011.  It refreshed a whole year up, and I did nothing to it.  The 'date opened'  is changed from 2010 to 2011 on all reports ive pulled.  Now how did they do that?   Century Link has bought them out, do you think when they bought them out the debt was resold , or since it changed hands it started over?

   When lenders pull your fico do they have access to further details on accounts that show its true date of first delinquency, that is not typically shown to consumers.  Or are some CA able to manipulate the system to try to screw you?

[RobertEG]

The significance of the referenced dates is based on the credit report periods set forth in the FCRA.  The FCRA sets specific periods for adverse items reported to your credit report, after which they can no longer continue to be included in your CR.

Those dates are based on the date of occurence of the type of adverse item, not upon when they are reported or any subsequent action on the part of the one who reported it.

For monthly OC account delinquencies, they must cease to be included in your CR after 7 years from their date of occurence.  Date of account opening, last reporting, etc., are irrelevant.  It is your record of your activity on the OC account that sets those dates.

Collections and charge-offs have their own peculiar date for CR exclusion, which is based on ONLY one date... the date of first delinquency on the OC account that led to the collection or charge-off.  The DOFD is fixed by your first delinquency in the most recent chain of account delinquencies with the OC preceding the charge-off or collection.

Here is a sample of how DOFD works:

30 late          4/2005      this initially sets the DOFD at 4/2005

60 late          5/2005      DOFD remains 4/2005

account paid back into good-standing   6.2005    DOFD remains 4/2005

.....pattern repeats through the last chain of delinquencies.......

last chain:

30 late          2/2006     this resets the DOFD to 2/2006, as a new chain of delinquencies begins

60 late          3/2006     DOFD remains 2/2006

90 late         4/2006     DOFD remains 2/2006

120 late       562006     DOFD remains 2/2006

Charge-off   6/2006     DOFD remains 2/2006

Collection    9/2007     DOFD remains 2/2006

Under this example, both the charge-off and the collection are required to be excluded from the consumer's credit report after 8/2013 (7 years plus 180 days from DOFD).

DOFD is not required to be reported to the CRA until such time as a charge-off or collection referral is reported.  Thereafter, any party reporting any information on the charged-off or collection debt must provide the DOFD to the CRA.

If you dont have a charge-off or collection reported,there will most likely be no reported DOFD in your credit file.

[Anonymous]

So if my 'myfico' fico report shows that the date opened on this internet bill collection is aug of 2011, does that mean that it is still hidden in the CRA that the account acctually went delinquent in 2010?  and is that what the bank is going to see the 2010 dofd when they pull my report.    Or what would cause a debt that was originally on my credit report in 2010 to show its current from 2011?

[RobertEG]

The "date opened" you are seeing is almost assuredly the date the collection was opened, and does not relate at all to the OC account.

Your credit file is divided into two distinct segments.  One segment records OC/creditor reporting, and the other records those of debt collectors.

While the two segments often, and confusingly, use similar terminolgy, they are referring to different items.

The date opened on an OC account refers to your account with the OC.

When a debt collector reports a collection to the CRA, they have a separate "date opened," which is the date their received collection authority.

Commercial credit reports often throw out such terms with related dates, sometimes under headings that dont really apply, that dont define who reported what.

It's very confusing.  To add to the confusion, when a consumer disputes what are apparently incorrect dates, the CRA will just verify their accuracy without including an explanation of why the information was, indeed, accurate.  Status dates, base and K-segments, etc., are not terms that consumers are, or should be expected to be, knowledgeable of, particularly when the same terms is used for two distinct items of information. 

[Anonymous]

wow very informative,  so the only loophole I see here is they could essentially keep re-selling my debt to keep it current.  So if a dubious collection agency had affiliates or companys under its banner they could shuffle it around and screw me,  which is what it seems like qwest tried to do when I applied for a mortgage they shuffled it to a diff CA in hopes it would screw up the loan approval.  That is what I'm assuming from reading about people with similar experiences on qwests old community forum(community complaint forum it looked more like).  

    I think I will try to ask for a pay for delete, I am just scared that I will awaken it again, or get the spotlight, and if they know its bothering me they may try more dubious efforts to piss me off.  Idk.  Honestly I would pay 2-3 times the debt even though technically it was their fault and I never really owed the amount in the first place.  For now on though I would rather get ripped off than deal with derogs on my report.  

Do you think they would go for it if I offered several times the amount owed for a deletion?  Or do you think I am just more likely to screw myself more by bringing it up at all.

[RobertEG]

I am not sure what you mean by "keeping it current."

Sure, a new collection will get a new date opened, but if CR exclusion is your concern, "date opened" affects nothing.

Only the DOFD on the OC account controls CR exclusion date, not any dates other than DOFD reported by a debt collector.

The requirements for reporting of a DOFD are very strict, as set forth in FCRA 623(a)(5). If a debt collector were to report an updated DOFD that was not permissible under section 623(a)(5), that is what is referred to as "illegal re-aging."  It is a serious offense, particularly if it causes real harm by causing an otherwise excluded collection to remain in a consumer's credit report.   DOFD is a date-certain that can be proved. 

[Anonymous]

Yeah thats exactly what they did, they re-aged it.  So maybe I should have a little chit chat with them and reference the fcra section they are in violation of.   

   and what my concern was.. is that they keep jumping the date up on it, and I can't get a fha loan with a derog that is less than 12mos old.  So everytime they change the "date opened" the bank tells me its too recent of a collection to approve me for a loan.

[Booner72]

Maybe your bank doesn't know how to read credit reports? 

I know my LO didn't - I had paid off those medical collections which updated the dates and she's like "WHAT'S THIS!!!???!!!"

Luckily she believed me when I explained it and the UW obviously knew what was up bc the loan funded.

So you have an old credit report that has an old DOFD and one now that has a new DOFD?  I'd be so mad!

[RobertEG]

I agree with Booner.

The FCRA is very specific (section 605(a)) that the date reported is NOT the relevant date of any adverse item in your CR for determination of its age.

It is the date the adverse item occured.

Section 605(c) was added to the FCRA long after section 605(a) was enacted, and clearly defined once and for all what the relevant date of occurence of either a collection or charge-off is.

The relevant date of a collection or charge-off, as it relates to credit reporting, is the date of occurence of the first delinquency on the OC account that preceded the collection or charge-off.  A collection reported, for example, 6 years after your DOFD on the OC account should not be viewed as a new derog as of the arbitrary date of reporting of the collection. 

That is beyond your control, totally arbitrary, and inconsistent with the FCRA.