@Citylights18 wrote:Does Dave Ramsey not realize the benefits of some of the travel cards? Certain people are frequent flyers and take multiple vacations a year. Loyalty cards earn extra status and simplify booking for people.
Dave Ramsey is preaching to the broke, in mountains of debt, no self-control people that cannot afford that vacation to begin with.
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Andypanda wrote:
@coldfusion wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
The other thing the anti-CCers seem to ignore is the whole spectre of rewards; looking back at the money I spent on my debit card between 2013 and 2020, I figure I lost out on an easy $3,000 to $4,000 in cash rewards; not insignificant.
I think Ramsey and others do address this, saying that most people don't make anything overall in credit card rewards, interest and other fees more than eat this up any gains. And obviously, if you don't PIF (nearly) all the time, that can be the case. I've heard a low figure (maybe 5-10% gave a net gain) from someone I respect, but don't know where that figure comes from. He also said, and I'm sure the same is true on MyFico, that nearly ALL his clients say that they are in that 5-10% (PIF and getting good rewards) and he's really not so convinced!
The numbers may have been skewed over the last 16 months or so, but the figures I used to see claimed were a lot closer to 50% than 10%.
I've seen a YouTube video of his saying that no one has ever become a millionaire with CC rewards. I would rather have the Money the CC save me than not have it.
Agreed, I will not become a millionaire from my CC rewards either, not even close; that's what my 401(K) and other investments are for. However, cashing in on $500 worth of rewards here and there is a nice way to treat myself, my wife, or my family to something nice I wouldn't otherwise splurge on.
You said it best yourself. "Something I wouldn't otherwise splurge on". Broke people use the same logic for the initial purchases that got them the CB or UR points. In other words, they should have kept 100% of their money in the first place.
@OmarR wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Andypanda wrote:
@coldfusion wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
The other thing the anti-CCers seem to ignore is the whole spectre of rewards; looking back at the money I spent on my debit card between 2013 and 2020, I figure I lost out on an easy $3,000 to $4,000 in cash rewards; not insignificant.
I think Ramsey and others do address this, saying that most people don't make anything overall in credit card rewards, interest and other fees more than eat this up any gains. And obviously, if you don't PIF (nearly) all the time, that can be the case. I've heard a low figure (maybe 5-10% gave a net gain) from someone I respect, but don't know where that figure comes from. He also said, and I'm sure the same is true on MyFico, that nearly ALL his clients say that they are in that 5-10% (PIF and getting good rewards) and he's really not so convinced!
The numbers may have been skewed over the last 16 months or so, but the figures I used to see claimed were a lot closer to 50% than 10%.
I've seen a YouTube video of his saying that no one has ever become a millionaire with CC rewards. I would rather have the Money the CC save me than not have it.
Agreed, I will not become a millionaire from my CC rewards either, not even close; that's what my 401(K) and other investments are for. However, cashing in on $500 worth of rewards here and there is a nice way to treat myself, my wife, or my family to something nice I wouldn't otherwise splurge on.
You said it best yourself. "Something I wouldn't otherwise splurge on". Broke people use the same logic for the initial purchases that got them the CB or UR points. In other words, they should have kept 100% of their money in the first place.
Sorry, I don't understand the analogy. I spend where and what I want, on an as needed basis and regardless of any cash back rewards I may or may not get from any given purchase. Said another way, I do absolutely nothing to gain any rewards at all, they happen as a byproduct of the credit cards I am now able to use versus the debit card I was able to use before my bankruptcy discharge; my spending patterns haven't changed one iota, only the fact I'm getting rewards now is different.
@Horseshoez wrote:
@OmarR wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Andypanda wrote:
@coldfusion wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
The other thing the anti-CCers seem to ignore is the whole spectre of rewards; looking back at the money I spent on my debit card between 2013 and 2020, I figure I lost out on an easy $3,000 to $4,000 in cash rewards; not insignificant.
I think Ramsey and others do address this, saying that most people don't make anything overall in credit card rewards, interest and other fees more than eat this up any gains. And obviously, if you don't PIF (nearly) all the time, that can be the case. I've heard a low figure (maybe 5-10% gave a net gain) from someone I respect, but don't know where that figure comes from. He also said, and I'm sure the same is true on MyFico, that nearly ALL his clients say that they are in that 5-10% (PIF and getting good rewards) and he's really not so convinced!
The numbers may have been skewed over the last 16 months or so, but the figures I used to see claimed were a lot closer to 50% than 10%.
I've seen a YouTube video of his saying that no one has ever become a millionaire with CC rewards. I would rather have the Money the CC save me than not have it.
Agreed, I will not become a millionaire from my CC rewards either, not even close; that's what my 401(K) and other investments are for. However, cashing in on $500 worth of rewards here and there is a nice way to treat myself, my wife, or my family to something nice I wouldn't otherwise splurge on.
You said it best yourself. "Something I wouldn't otherwise splurge on". Broke people use the same logic for the initial purchases that got them the CB or UR points. In other words, they should have kept 100% of their money in the first place.
Sorry, I don't understand the analogy. I spend where and what I want, on an as needed basis and regardless of any cash back rewards I may or may not get from any given purchase. Said another way, I do absolutely nothing to gain any rewards at all, they happen as a byproduct of the credit cards I am now able to use versus the debit card I was able to use before my bankruptcy discharge; my spending patterns haven't changed one iota, only the fact I'm getting rewards now is different.
For yourself, anecdotally, that's accurate. For the millions that carry balances and cannot PIF every month, not accurate.
And that's where the OP is asking for help in what he/she is not seeing. Dave Ramsey is preaching to the people that cannot control their finances.
@OmarR wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@OmarR wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
@Andypanda wrote:
@coldfusion wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Horseshoez wrote:
The other thing the anti-CCers seem to ignore is the whole spectre of rewards; looking back at the money I spent on my debit card between 2013 and 2020, I figure I lost out on an easy $3,000 to $4,000 in cash rewards; not insignificant.
I think Ramsey and others do address this, saying that most people don't make anything overall in credit card rewards, interest and other fees more than eat this up any gains. And obviously
And that's where the OP is asking for help in what he/she is not seeing. Dave Ramsey is preaching to the people that cannot control their finances.
I knew DR was against all credit except mortgages but I didn't know he would make false statements to his audience about credit. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he might be ignorant rather than deceitful since he has supposedly been out of the credit world for decades but it seems unlikely to me that he really is as uninformed as he sounds. It's fine for him to demand his listeners stay away from credit because he believes they cannot handle it responsibly but when he made claims I know are incorrect about credit I wonder what other claims he makes are just flat out wrong. I doubt anyone is allowed to correct him on the air.
I have shared my Dave Ramsey thoughts before but I will share them again.
Like with any and all people who share advice, some of the advice is pretty solid but I have always felt that dogma was a problem in of itself. I have a friend who is a big Dave Ramsey fan, so the idea that I have so many credit cards is something he has expressed disagreement with me on many times, so technically I have "credit card debt" every month but I have done the PIF thing for quite some time and very rarely do I carry a balance (last balance I carried was 3 years ago on a 0% Blue Nile deal).
With that said, you can all go and find my story in the rebuilding thread, as recent as 6 years ago or so I had poor credit and had credit card debt, I was lucky it never got too out of hand but I made a lot of poor choices after getting my first credit card (13 years ago). Lots of people do and some people learn and some people don't. For those that don't living in a cash world is probably for the best.
Credit can be a tool for sure, leveraging debt can work for some but it can fail for others. Most folks with a six digit salary could indeed retire as a millionare if they changed their lifestyle, many of us have no desire to do so. Dave Ramsey isn't bad, he just promotes a different world view that many find very hard to follow (let's face it, I like knowing that if I want to go get something on credit I could).
