Dr knocks us & the finances out of orbit!

[IOBA]

Short story - DH got sick with the "flu", went to doc, tests ordered, doc calls, says ya gotta head tumor, and ya gotta come in tomorrow for more tests & a talk.

We go in for the tests & a talk, get printed copies of the test results, go in for more tests, get a doc's note excusing DH from work for a bit.  We will get the rest of the test results maybe as early as tomorrow, but most likely Monday.  (The labs are being rushed, as we need to know asap more about what we are dealing with.)

We read the test results, learn there's more than the doc told us, and think, sheeze, we gotta go on the internet to see what this and that mean.  Doc is sending us to a specialist, but wants to send us with as much info (test results) as possible so we can immediately make a treatment plan.  He's already started meds to alleviate some of his scale 10 pain.

I'm going through this with him.

All of our affairs are in order and were updated just over a year ago.

Now I am rushing to pay off our zero interest debt.  We can't afford debt on disability.  Which we actually talked about - his going on disability immediately.  But that can take several years for the ss office to agree & pay up, as well as getting disability status from work, even though this one will be an easy-peasy with a head tumor.  And we can't go without his paycheck.  He either has to work his paycheck job or be dead.  There's no financial room for in between at this point.

I am about to be inundated with medical bills.  Deductibles (hello 2017!) and copays.  Our savings account probably won't last a month with the expected medical bills coming in.  Hospitals, specialists, doctors, labs, etc around here automatically send you to collections at the 90 day mark.  Period.  They won't negotiate.  Their solution?  If you can't afford to pay your medical bills, put it on a cc and make payments.  They don't care so long as they get their money asap.

DH doesn't want anyone else to know what's going on.  He even refused to tell his boss.  So I am keeping this to myself and only sharing with semi-total strangers, yet family like people, on myfico.  (Gotta love you guys!) 

Any suggestions for what I need to do?  Or should do?  Besides tighten the belt even more.  And keep being patient and understanding and kind to DH as we go through this together.

Savings is going to run out real fast with the medical bills.

Kids/family/friends won't be told until much later.  He just doens't want them to know.  At this point - I agree.  We don't have the full picture yet.  But once we do, he still won't want them to know.  Any suggestions on when we (translate to me) should tell the kids, the family, and friends?

 Lol - to top all of this off, I have been in severe pain and need to be seen myself.  I haven't made the appt cuz I am driving him around and taking notes and listening.  (He is not totally able to understand or remember what he has heard/what is going on.  A side effect - the short term memory loss.)

Thanks guys.  For listening.  For any suggestions you have. 

[Anonymous]

I don't have any financial advice but I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry for what you and your family are going through. I truly wish there was something I could do to help.

[Anonymous]

IOBA, very sorry to hear of this. Sending a warm hug as well as thoughts and prayers for your family. It's a lot to deal with very unexpectedly.

If you have a faith community, they may be of help with not only resources to assist with utilities or food, but also to help with emotional support. This is a lot for you to take on yourself without telling others. Leaning on someone you trust can help you be a better caregiver and not get sick yourself from all of the stress.

I'd suggest investigating community resources as well that may be able to help with rent, food, gas reimbursements for driving to medical appointments, or other necessities.

Once you know more, you may also wish to contact groups related to your husband's particular diagnosis. Besides providing support and knowledge, they can at times provide resources to cover certain medical appointments, tests, or procedures, and provide ideas for fundraisers that can help alleviate expenses.

Hang in there, take good care of yourself in the process, and know that being an angel for your husband and a rock for him to lean on will really help him.

[tacpoly]

Geesh, where do you live?!  I think it's harsh that the hospital sends bills to collections right away.  Most hospitals I know have patient advocates or social workers that can at least suggest resources for you to look at.  And does your work provide an Employee Assistance Program? 

I wouldn't hide this condition from family.  A tumor that affects the brain can also affect mental acuity, personality, and memory, which would be difficult to explain.

[Revelate]

My thoughts and best wishes for you IOBA, I still remember reading your CD laddering posts from back in 2012.

I don't have any suggestions other than to reinforce the idea that sharing the issue with your close family to expand the support group... longer term it will be beneficial, though I can understand waiting till you know more.

[Anonymous]

My prayers are with you and your family IOBA. 

[IOBA]

Thank you for all of the love and well wishes.

I am in Virginia/DC metro area.  Yeah, ALL of the hospitals that are close to us send things to collections within 90 days.  Period.  I was in the hospital twice in March and those buggers wouldn't even accept payments that would have the bill paid off in 120 days/4 months.  It was pay off the bill within 90 days, put it all on the cc (they actually told me to do this!), or go to collections.  The only place that use to negotiate and allow 4 months of payments was an imaging center.  I had to remind them I had always paid the bill off in the past, even if it took several months and then the manager/supervisor would agree to a 4 month payment plan.  They also sent things to collections at 90 days, but would pull it back for me.  And I learned to call to remind the supervisor of our agreement right before 90 days so it would be recoded NOT to go to collections.

DH was sent to a different imaging center, so not sure if they will be nice about payments or not.  The front desk gal was asking everyone for payment up front.  Even those with insurance.  She - thankfully - was not at the front desk when we turned in our paperwork.  But everyone else turned in their paperwork and she asked for payment.  (The place "estimates" what the insurance will pay and what the deductible and copays are and wants the patient to pay the estimated costs up front.)

Here's what I my plan is now...subject to change as we know more.

1.  We (mostly together) are setting weekly goals.  I kinda direct the conversation, write down the goal, and ask him how I can help him accomplish it.  I check in with him often.  Sometimes under the guise of asking a question, sometimes offering a drink, or dinner.  There are a lot of things to get done that I can't do myself.  So we are taking baby steps.

2.  We are trying to have a more structured routine.  In my experience of caring for others, a structured routine is usually comfortable when someone is going through the changes.

3.  We had the laddered (with 2-3 a month maturing) CD's but cashed them out to pay medical.  (Two hospital stays in one month is expensive!)  So we have 3 CD's now that we contribute to each and every payday.  One pays out this summer and two pay out next year.  I am going to restructure the contribution to maybe $10 a month for the CD's and throw everything else on the zero interest debt we have.  

4.  I prepaid as many utilities/bills as I can for the year.  I will still have two bills not prepaid.  The companies don't like being prepaid, but I am going to see what I can do about prepaying them as well.  The purpose of prepaying is so that I don't have to worry about missing a payment or not having the money for a payment.  I know, it's counter intuitive to prepay, but it's worse to come home from the hospital to find the power turned off.

5.  We (translate to me) are going through things and thinking singular versus joint.  Is it something I would use if it were just me?  If the answer is no, then I will earmark it to be donated or sold on Craigslist.  I keep things pretty well cleared out, but there are some things that here because DH says not to get rid of them right now.

6.  I am going to try to hire someone to come in and do the things I can't and that DH shouldn't do.  It's worth the peace of mind that we will have when the project is completed, even if I had to pay someone else.  I want DH to be able to relax and not worry about things.

7.  I hadn't considered counseling, but since it was mentioned, there is a place I can go to that might have some resource recommendations for me.  It would be good for me to talk to someone else about my feelings. (I hadn't thought of that - thank you.)

8.  Redoing my budget!  Yeah, going to have to do that soon!  Reduce contributes to the CD's, increase contributions to savings, and prepay as many things as I can now, so I don't have to worry about that as we go down our road.

9.  Still working on when to tell family and friends.  We are waiting to see if the specialist will recommend surgery or not.  We already know that based on the size of the tumor and the location of the tumor and the tumor's directional growth pattern that the surgeon will likely not be able to remove all of it.  His parents may have noticed some changes, but they didn't comment on them.  They just gave me funny looks and I explained that he liked to do that now.  This was before we knew what was going on medically.  His siblings have not noticed anything different.  Neither have the kids.

10.  I am going to try again to talk to him about selling our place.  He doens't want to.  I get that.  But it's going to be tough for me to maintain (financially) on my own. I can probably do it.  There will be life insurance but it's only equal to 3 years of pay and could take months to receive.  If we can sell while he is still here, then it makes the whole big picture easier.

11.  This one may sound a bit weird or odd...but we are literally basing our menu off of the foods we already have in the cabinets, fridge, freezer.  We are building our meals around what is here.  The goal is to get to the point that we use up the foods that only he will eat and to save money on groceries.  

12.  The man is changing his wardrobe.  He wanted new clothes and shoes, so I let him get new clothes and shoes.  He should have comfy clothes for what is ahead.    And the clothes are easier to handle.  He still has his work clothes.  I figure he can wear the comfy clothes to/from appts, when he's at home and can dress himself.  Then when it's my job to dress him, we switch back to button down shirts.  Lol - he may be a very well dressed dying guy.

13.  Work.  I mentioned that he talked about going out on disability.  But that does take months to get approved and then to pay out.  He'd get disability for sure, but it may not be worth it big picture.  Today I brought up retirement again.  To my surprise, he said it would be really nice if he could retire in a few months.  Then an hour later he talked about retiring at age 65.  That is a few years down the road...  but this is life now.  He doens't remember things.  I did get his boss's phone number so I can talk to boss.  And we will probably do his retirement application together.

Still much to do, much to process.

If you guys think of anything else I need to do, please let me know.  

[stargazer25]

I came from medical debt hell, so I understand.

Does your hospital not offer Charity Care? You would have to submit previous financials and current financials to prove that you do not have the ability to pay. In your case show bank statements that show all of your disposable income is already going to medical bills.

Is it too late to change your insurance coverage and pay a higher premium for no deductible? My health insurance company is still letting me make changes for 2017.

If your medical debt does make it to collections, I suggest that you set up a payment plan before they start reporting. I've done that to avoid a collection showing. Mind you I still ended up with 15 lines of collections.

Look around too, there are some consumer protection laws that have to do with how much time you have before medical debt starts to show on credit reports b/c sometimes it takes forever to get insurance companies to pay out. I want to say 180 days.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry I didn't see this post earlier...
My thoughts and best wishes towards the DC area for you and your family @IOBA


*For others as you SEE the laboured detail and concern this woman now HAS TO put herself and her family (later, once they even find out...What Mom and Dad had to do and consider on their own)
Please reconsider the importance of long-term care and the financial health protectors available through insuring against the far to often and unfortunately relatively common financial dangers inheritent with getting sick or hurt.

Not trying to pitch a plan or anything....
It just hurts me so much to hear about and think about the issues that I know ppl have to go through, that many could have actually afforded not to...But for zigging vs zagging, just a little here and there.

When, I say it and offer a plan oft times it's seen as a pitch for folks money
However my concern is always genuine...My commission will come from somewhere sooner or later and will most definitely be spent and forgotten but the power and comfort provided by having a plan in place, prior to 'game time' is way a bigger deal.

Sorry for what may seem like a rant, it's just the torture one lives with feeling had they known and been able to convince another to set this up and put that in place... Perhaps, the extra worry concern and financial burden might have been somewhat lessened...

Again, nothing but well wishes and best regards 😃

[IOBA]

Update and responses to posts...

1.  Disability insurance was something we had, ironically, looked into last year.  We did the analysis.  For what the coverage was and the out of pocket expenses that go with it, we decided it was not a feasible thing to do.  If we had bought into long term care or disability insurance when they first came out, we would have had 100% or near 100% of  the care expenses covered.  Now, it's less than 50%, copays, deductibles, and a max amount of benefits that will be paid.  

2.  The last time I tried to set up a payment plan BEFORE the operation, the hospital said no.  After the operation, before the bills had cleared the insurance company, I tried to set up payments.  The hospitals response was to send a 10 day pay in full demand letter.  The claims had not even been processed by insurance when I had received that letter.  I explained, again, I knew that I had some financial responsibility and wanted to start making payments.  The hospital sent me to collections BEFORE the claims had been processed by the insurance company.  

Things change.  Now all of these places are requiring "payment" at time of appt.  DH and I have informed every office that tries to "pre-collect" on the amount the "insurance company says is my responsibility" - No, we are not paying a thing until the insurance company has processed the claim and the insurance company has told me what I owe.  They don't like it, but tough patooties.  The neurosurgeon's office tried to collect more than 5k up front, plus our deductible!  The copays we have to pay for medical doctor visits - we are paying that at the time of the appt.  But all of these other things, like the lab, like the imaging center, we are telling them we won't pay until the insurance company tells us how much to pay.

3.  I drained all of our accounts (including reserves and savings) to pay what's come this way so far.  I have a stack of EOB (explanation of benefits) statements from the insurance company piled up on the table, in a folder.  I wait for the invoice to come from the medical folks (doc, lab, imaging, hospital, etc), match up the two.  From the time I receive the medical invoice, I know I have approximately 90 days to pay before it goes to collections.  So I will do that.  

4.  I have already borrowed money from one of the kids.  He doesn't know what's going on yet, but he had always been kind to loan us money as needed.  We've always been generous in paying back the funds in a timely manner.  

5.  Surgery is the only option for DH.  We are making sure the hospital and the docs have his medical directive and the medical power of attorney on file.

6.  DH decided to talk to his bro about what is going on.  His bro is a surgical nurse and the back up power of authority if I am unable or unwilling to make decisions about DH's medical care.

7.  Made sure that the bank accounts are somehow linked to me so that I can pull the money out of the accounts that are in his name only.

8.  Got his bosses contact information.

9.  Paid for the Federal Employee Handbook.  It will have the details on what to do and how to do it, in the event he is permanently disabled or if he moves to heaven.

10.  We talked it out...only telling his bro and asking his bro NOT to tell anyone else.  DH is confident that his bro can handle that responsibility.  I think it's unfair to do that to his bro, but we need to make sure that people are not misinformed.  (BIG family on that side.)  And there's nothing that the family can do anyways.  None of them would travel to be by my side during the surgery or the recovery.  We actually kinda said "good bye" (made an extra visit) to see family at the end of last year.  I just had a "feeling" that we absolutely needed to make an extra trip to visit folks.  DH didn't argue it, didn't like it, but he listens when my gut screams at me that we need to take an action.  (Bless his heart.)  As it turns out, a family member moved to heaven last week.  It was expected and not the reason for the extra trip.  

I am not going to remind DH that he wants to tell his bro.  I will let him make that move on his own.

We will also tell one of our kids about the surgery.  This is the adult kid who is the most responsible one and who always likes to know what is going on.  The other kids don't care about what we do/what's going on.  It's all about their lives and their next adventure.  If we thought the news would impact them, we would tell them.  The last surgery DH had, we told them and they didn't even call/text/email to see how things went.

DH doesn't feel that he needs to see anyone else or say goodbye to anyone.  

11.  We contacted our Realtor about selling our place.  There's an interested party.  *praying it works out*   The deal on the table (and it's not even written, just verbal negotiations) is that we could rent back our place through the end of this year and we would sell the property at a "low" sales price.  Current market value minus current rent for 11 months to get the sales price.

12.  We are disposing of stuffs.  It's wierd.  I found old medical files from the 90's.  I was shocked at the kick a** letters I wrote to hospitals and collection agencies!  I had even forgotten that I was disabled in the 90's.  Guess I didn't file for social security.  

13.  We got DH comfy clothes for recovery.  We've talked about the foods he'd like to have on hand for recovery.  I am not buying them now.  He'd inhale them now!

14.  Asked the doc for his post surgery scripts.  Doc said wait until he comes out of surgery, then we will write them for you.  Uh, oh, ok.  (I wanted them filled and waiting at home for DH.  Doc said I could fill them at the hospital when it looks like he is going to go home.  Ok.  Fair enough.)

15.  Oh and my folks are going to move in with us pretty soon...so DH and I talked about that, where to put them, how to make the move as easy as possible on ALL of us.  And no, they don't know what is going on.  They are still dealing with the recent death in the family.  And still grappling with the reality that they don't have a choice but to move with us since we can't/won't send them a monthly stipend.  (They don't live within their means, although they will argue differently.  They insist that they are as frugal as possible and can't possibily give up another thing.  They don't go out to eat, they don't do Starbucks, so by all appearances they are frugal.  But I have seen where they spend their money.  There are more ways to cut back.)

16.  Car is going to be serviced.  Gotta have a working car!

17.  I will be telling my best friend what is going on.  She's a great gal and she's the type that would offer to visit me in the hospital or come to the house during his recovery.  So I will have someone there to cry on.  (She's going through a tough time right now with her mom getting ready to move to heaven, so I may not tell her.  I dunno.)

18.  We've always been open about talking about cremation/funeral/services/etc.  So I don't have a place lined up for that but I know what he wants.  And I just now realized that I probably need to do the calls and get something lined up just in case.  Easier to do prior to than after.

I'm sure more things will come along we travel this path.