So after looking at the General Scoring Primer Post I was trying to deeply understand how Scorecard assignments worked and I think I might understand where I might fall in terms of the way lenders view my credit profile?
I believe I currently have a scorecard of: Thick/Dirty/PR/Recent?
I currently have a collections with PRA that is 1yr7mo old according to EX, I'm getting a settlement and PFD that's going be done by the end of the month, so I know that should take me out of the 2 "PR" scorecards and most likely into the Dirty Deliquent Recent scorecards..
So here's some DPs on what the negatives are on my CR that can hopefully see if someone can provide some insight on where I might end up in terms of scorecard assignment (although we know it's all theoretical for the most part, but just based off what we think we know)
Payment History:
- Total Lates (30+ days): 10
- 60+ Days: 6
- Most Recent Late: 21 months (30 day late)
I think the only non - 30 day late payments are more than 2 years old and as old as 3 yrs old
Charge-Offs:
- Auto Loan with DOFD Nov 2015
- WF Credit Card DOFD May 2018 (Settled)
- AMEX (I think DOFD is somewhere in 2019, but they kinda did some weird stuff with my reporting, kept my good history payments, but deleted the late payments but listed a CO in Jan 2021, after I PIF and got on the Optima card program, so idk if this in my benefit or it screws me)
I know that once I pay off the collections and it's deleted from my reports, I (should?) be put into the deliquency scorecards and I'm still not entirely sure what is considered the aging cut-off for being considered a "mature" vs. "recent" delinquent scorecard but, if I had to guess it seems it might be 2 years since the last payment as I've heard that tends to be when lenders don't put too much weight on late payments that occured 2 yrs ago.
My main concern as to how my credit report/profile represents my credit worthiness, despite what my actual scores may end up, I'm not sure if the fact that I'm on a dirty scorecard will limit my opportunities for higher starting limits or for approvals for certain cards with certain lenders.
I know that I can probably end up in the mid 700-740s scores by keeping my utilization very tight (<8.9%) and NEVER missing another payment again, but I think I understand that a higher score doesn't necessarily mean you'd be approved over someone that has a lower score than you, but with a clean scorecard.
But if anyone would like to provide their opinions on how my credit profile looks based on what I've provided above and I can more specific details if requested!
Thanks 🙂
EX
TU
EQ
On the best-guess scorecard divisions @Anonymous made for his primer, you would be on Dirty/Public Record/Recent scorecard, but much less is known about the dirty scorecards for FICO8 than the clean cards. There are four dirty scorecards, and having either a 60D late or a collection or CO will put you on one of the dirty cards, but we have less information about what segments the dirty cards. It may be that cards for mature delinquency were added, since the previous FICO versions only had two dirty card and segmented you to clean cards if your dirt was more than two years old. If that's the case, then 2 yrs w/o PR & 2 yrs w/o 60D+ late could be segmentation points for dirty cards. (Also, thick/thin is only a known segmentation factor for clean cards, so, as far as scorecards go, that distinction doesn't apply to you.)
As far as moving off the (hypothesized) Dirty/PR/Recent card, CO's almost always remain on your reports after they are paid, so, if I'm understanding your dates correctly, I think the soonest that you could move to Dirty/PR/Mature (if it exists) would be Jan 2023 and the soonest you could move to a clean card would be sometime in 2026. Being on a clean or dirty card in and of itself does not affect your creditworthiness, because it is not visible to lenders. The info in your profile that puts you on a dirty card and how it contributes to your credit scores do, however, so you're correct in thinking that someone on a clean card with a lower credit score than someone on a dirty card could have better approval chances and borrowing opportunities, depending on the differences in their profiles, income, etc, since lending decisions are based on much more than credit scores alone.
@Slabenstein wrote:On the best-guess scorecard divisions @Anonymous made for his primer, you would be on Dirty/Public Record/Recent scorecard, but much less is known about the dirty scorecards for FICO8 than the clean cards. There are four dirty scorecards, and having either a 60D late or a collection or CO will put you on one of the dirty cards, but we have less information about what segments the dirty cards. It may be that cards for mature delinquency were added, since the previous FICO versions only had two dirty card and segmented you to clean cards if your dirt was more than two years old. If that's the case, then 2 yrs w/o PR & 2 yrs w/o 60D+ late could be segmentation points for dirty cards. (Also, thick/thin is only a known segmentation factor for clean cards, so, as far as scorecards go, that distinction doesn't apply to you.)
As far as moving off the (hypothesized) Dirty/PR/Recent card, CO's almost always remain on your reports after they are paid, so, if I'm understanding your dates correctly, I think the soonest that you could move to Dirty/PR/Mature (if it exists) would be Jan 2023 and the soonest you could move to a clean card would be sometime in 2026. Being on a clean or dirty card in and of itself does not affect your creditworthiness, because it is not visible to lenders. The info in your profile that puts you on a dirty card and how it contributes to your credit scores do, however, so you're correct in thinking that someone on a clean card with a lower credit score than someone on a dirty card could have better approval chances and borrowing opportunities, depending on the differences in their profiles, income, etc, since lending decisions are based on much more than credit scores alone.
Thanks for the thoughtful/descriptive response!
Also just to clarify, just by having a CO on my CR does that automatically place me into the of the two PR dirty scorecards and not one of the other two deliquent dirty scorecards? Also, I'm not sure if the dates in which I paid the COs make a difference in which they should be considered old delinquencies.
For AMEX, I think it originally was charged off in May/Jun 2019, but I paid them in Dec 2020. For WF, I believe it was charged-off Oct 2018 but I paid that on Jan 2021.
So I'm not sure whether or not the "recency" of a deliquent scorecard is from the DOFD or last status date?
@Anonymous wrote:
And yes whether you’re on a dirty or clean card has no relevance to the lender directly. It’s simply a logistical regression technique used mathematically to assign scores to demonstrate probability of a certain actions occurring based on other circumstances.
Another words it’s just the inner workings of the algorithm that creates the score; it has no relevance to the lender. However, the contents of your credit report are very important to the lender and the same things that segment you into a dirty card would be things of concern to a lender. That’s why those things cause such segmentation.
As for dirty Segmentation, we do know that a 60 day late or worse puts you in a delinquency Scorecard. We also know that a collection, a tax lien, a judgment when they used to report them, or a bankruptcy will segment you into a PR card, being more severe than a delinquency.
The delinquency recency segmentation point, I think it’s pretty firmly 2 years. I am less certain whether that segmentation point applies to the PR cards, but I would most certainly love to know. I would love data points on that.
The legend himself @Anonymous 
thank you for replying!
I wish I could provided some DPs on the recency segmentation for a PR because my collections account with PRA shows an age of 1yr8mo so it's getting reallly close to that 2 yr mark, but I would rather get rid of it now.. LOL
Regarding the recency segmentation for the COs though, my AMEX is kinda reporting inconsistently between my 3B CRs. EX shows paid/was charge-off and doesn't have a fall off date on the report, while TU shows PIF/was a charge off but that the fall off date would be 03/2022? (Which is 7 yrs based off the date the account was opened) EQ just shows "CHARGE-OFF" and no fall off date but a DOFD of Nov 2019..
Idk if I should try reaching out to AMEX about reporting it more consistently but im not sure if that might end up biting me in the butt in some form.
I know there's no definite way of testing whether or not a scorecard is matured or recent, but would possibly applying for something and having a denial with a reason code relating to "recent deliquency/derogatory" or even on myFICO 3B pull on what negative items are impacting my score that show something similar regarding whether or not the 2 yr cut-off applies?
@bicboiOD wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And yes whether you’re on a dirty or clean card has no relevance to the lender directly. It’s simply a logistical regression technique used mathematically to assign scores to demonstrate probability of a certain actions occurring based on other circumstances.
Another words it’s just the inner workings of the algorithm that creates the score; it has no relevance to the lender. However, the contents of your credit report are very important to the lender and the same things that segment you into a dirty card would be things of concern to a lender. That’s why those things cause such segmentation.
As for dirty Segmentation, we do know that a 60 day late or worse puts you in a delinquency Scorecard. We also know that a collection, a tax lien, a judgment when they used to report them, or a bankruptcy will segment you into a PR card, being more severe than a delinquency.
The delinquency recency segmentation point, I think it’s pretty firmly 2 years. I am less certain whether that segmentation point applies to the PR cards, but I would most certainly love to know. I would love data points on that.The legend himself @Anonymous
I wish I could provided some DPs on the recency segmentation for a PR because my collections account with PRA shows an age of 1yr8mo so it's getting reallly close to that 2 yr mark, but I would rather get rid of it now.. LOL
Regarding the recency segmentation for the COs though, my AMEX is kinda reporting inconsistently between my 3B CRs. EX shows paid/was charge-off and doesn't have a fall off date on the report, while TU shows PIF/was a charge off but that the fall off date would be 03/2022? (Which is 7 yrs based off the date the account was opened) EQ just shows "CHARGE-OFF" and no fall off date but a DOFD of Nov 2019..
Idk if I should try reaching out to AMEX about reporting it more consistently but im not sure if that might end up biting me in the butt in some form.
I know there's no definite way of testing whether or not a scorecard is matured or recent, but would possibly applying for something and having a denial with a reason code relating to "recent deliquency/derogatory" or even on myFICO 3B pull on what negative items are impacting my score that show something similar regarding whether or not the 2 yr cut-off applies?
I don't think there is a 2 year cutoff for collections. Both on my credit monitoring service negative reason codes and my denial reasons when trying to refinance my truck loan last month I still got "public record or collection" as a reason. And my collection is 3 years old.
@bicboiOD wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And yes whether you’re on a dirty or clean card has no relevance to the lender directly. It’s simply a logistical regression technique used mathematically to assign scores to demonstrate probability of a certain actions occurring based on other circumstances.
Another words it’s just the inner workings of the algorithm that creates the score; it has no relevance to the lender. However, the contents of your credit report are very important to the lender and the same things that segment you into a dirty card would be things of concern to a lender. That’s why those things cause such segmentation.
As for dirty Segmentation, we do know that a 60 day late or worse puts you in a delinquency Scorecard. We also know that a collection, a tax lien, a judgment when they used to report them, or a bankruptcy will segment you into a PR card, being more severe than a delinquency.
The delinquency recency segmentation point, I think it’s pretty firmly 2 years. I am less certain whether that segmentation point applies to the PR cards, but I would most certainly love to know. I would love data points on that.The legend himself @Anonymous
I wish I could provided some DPs on the recency segmentation for a PR because my collections account with PRA shows an age of 1yr8mo so it's getting reallly close to that 2 yr mark, but I would rather get rid of it now.. LOL
Regarding the recency segmentation for the COs though, my AMEX is kinda reporting inconsistently between my 3B CRs. EX shows paid/was charge-off and doesn't have a fall off date on the report, while TU shows PIF/was a charge off but that the fall off date would be 03/2022? (Which is 7 yrs based off the date the account was opened) EQ just shows "CHARGE-OFF" and no fall off date but a DOFD of Nov 2019..
Idk if I should try reaching out to AMEX about reporting it more consistently but im not sure if that might end up biting me in the butt in some form.
I know there's no definite way of testing whether or not a scorecard is matured or recent, but would possibly applying for something and having a denial with a reason code relating to "recent deliquency/derogatory" or even on myFICO 3B pull on what negative items are impacting my score that show something similar regarding whether or not the 2 yr cut-off applies?
@bicboiOD my pleasure and I totally understand, I would get rid of the CA if I could as well... unless you're not doing anything for 4 months anyway? 😉 lol.
If you paid the chargeoff on Experian, it appears that the chargeoff will drop at 7 years and the account will remain.
as for TransUnion, it should fall off 7 years from the DOFD not from the opening date, but you may not want to rattle that cage because it sounds like it's falling off early.
and Equifax is way different. What is the correct DOFD, do you know? Sounds like you may have to fix that one. No I don't think I would reach out to American Express yet. They can update all three bureaus and that could screw you at TransUnion if that's in your favor. Let's figure out what's right and what's wrong and then you can individually address it at each bureau if necessary.
there is a way to know whether it's a recent or mature delinquency Scorecard as explained above, but for a PR card,we have not yet confirmed the segmentation threshold so... there's no way to be too sure about that
No, opening up an account would not fulfill the purpose you seek. You can obtain your negative reason codes by purchasing your score, or a 3B would do that. However, that will not tell us whether the public record is putting you in a recent or mature dirty scorecard. I'm not aware of any reason codes that are specific to only mature or recent dirty scorecards.
Also it's not really a cutoff. It's just a transition point, it's a segmentation threshold. you move from one dirty scorecard to a different dirty scorecard at that point.
I can already tell you you have a public record reason code. Also, the main difference in shifting from a recent to a mature dirty scorecard is a score increase, so I'm not sure it's going to benefit you greatly to know whether it is recent or mature anyway really. But it's a great academic question.
your path forward depends on what the DOFD really is.
@OmarGB9 there is no two-year cut off for collections. There is a threshold where you change scorecards from a recent PR card to a mature PR card. I don't think you would see any difference in Reason Codes. None that I'm aware of. What you would see is a score change unexplained by anything else on the first of the month, I believe or maybe on the actual date?
@Anonymous wrote:
@bicboiOD wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And yes whether you’re on a dirty or clean card has no relevance to the lender directly. It’s simply a logistical regression technique used mathematically to assign scores to demonstrate probability of a certain actions occurring based on other circumstances.
Another words it’s just the inner workings of the algorithm that creates the score; it has no relevance to the lender. However, the contents of your credit report are very important to the lender and the same things that segment you into a dirty card would be things of concern to a lender. That’s why those things cause such segmentation.
As for dirty Segmentation, we do know that a 60 day late or worse puts you in a delinquency Scorecard. We also know that a collection, a tax lien, a judgment when they used to report them, or a bankruptcy will segment you into a PR card, being more severe than a delinquency.
The delinquency recency segmentation point, I think it’s pretty firmly 2 years. I am less certain whether that segmentation point applies to the PR cards, but I would most certainly love to know. I would love data points on that.The legend himself @Anonymous
I wish I could provided some DPs on the recency segmentation for a PR because my collections account with PRA shows an age of 1yr8mo so it's getting reallly close to that 2 yr mark, but I would rather get rid of it now.. LOL
Regarding the recency segmentation for the COs though, my AMEX is kinda reporting inconsistently between my 3B CRs. EX shows paid/was charge-off and doesn't have a fall off date on the report, while TU shows PIF/was a charge off but that the fall off date would be 03/2022? (Which is 7 yrs based off the date the account was opened) EQ just shows "CHARGE-OFF" and no fall off date but a DOFD of Nov 2019..
Idk if I should try reaching out to AMEX about reporting it more consistently but im not sure if that might end up biting me in the butt in some form.
I know there's no definite way of testing whether or not a scorecard is matured or recent, but would possibly applying for something and having a denial with a reason code relating to "recent deliquency/derogatory" or even on myFICO 3B pull on what negative items are impacting my score that show something similar regarding whether or not the 2 yr cut-off applies?
@bicboiOD my pleasure and I totally understand, I would get rid of the CA if I could as well... unless you're not doing anything for 4 months anyway? 😉 lol.
If you paid the chargeoff on Experian, it appears that the chargeoff will drop at 7 years and the account will remain.
as for TransUnion, it should fall off 7 years from the DOFD not from the opening date, but you may not want to rattle that cage because it sounds like it's falling off early.
and Equifax is way different. What is the correct DOFD, do you know? Sounds like you may have to fix that one. No I don't think I would reach out to American Express yet. They can update all three bureaus and that could screw you at TransUnion if that's in your favor. Let's figure out what's right and what's wrong and then you can individually address it at each bureau if necessary.
there is a way to know whether it's a recent or mature delinquency Scorecard as explained above, but for a PR card,we have not yet confirmed the segmentation threshold so... there's no way to be too sure about that
No, opening up an account would not fulfill the purpose you seek. You can obtain your negative reason codes by purchasing your score, or a 3B would do that. However, that will not tell us whether the public record is putting you in a recent or mature dirty scorecard. I'm not aware of any reason codes that are specific to only mature or recent dirty scorecards.
Also it's not really a cutoff. It's just a transition point, it's a segmentation threshold. you move from one dirty scorecard to a different dirty scorecard at that point.
I can already tell you you have a public record reason code. Also, the main difference in shifting from a recent to a mature dirty scorecard is a score increase, so I'm not sure it's going to benefit you greatly to know whether it is recent or mature anyway really. But it's a great academic question.
your path forward depends on what the DOFD really is.
@OmarGB9 there is no two-year cut off for collections. There is a threshold where you change scorecards from a recent PR card to a mature PR card. I don't think you would see any difference in Reason Codes. None that I'm aware of. What you would see is a score change unexplained buy anything else on the first of the month.
@Anonymous Haha, I wouldn't mind running some DPs in other aspects of my credit profile depending on what changes over the next few months for me! I appreciate the very in depth responses!
But I will definitely try and update once I get the CA deleted from my CR in the next month and see how my 3B reports look once they reflect the tradeline being removed.
@bicboiOD wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@bicboiOD wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And yes whether you’re on a dirty or clean card has no relevance to the lender directly. It’s simply a logistical regression technique used mathematically to assign scores to demonstrate probability of a certain actions occurring based on other circumstances.
Another words it’s just the inner workings of the algorithm that creates the score; it has no relevance to the lender. However, the contents of your credit report are very important to the lender and the same things that segment you into a dirty card would be things of concern to a lender. That’s why those things cause such segmentation.
As for dirty Segmentation, we do know that a 60 day late or worse puts you in a delinquency Scorecard. We also know that a collection, a tax lien, a judgment when they used to report them, or a bankruptcy will segment you into a PR card, being more severe than a delinquency.
The delinquency recency segmentation point, I think it’s pretty firmly 2 years. I am less certain whether that segmentation point applies to the PR cards, but I would most certainly love to know. I would love data points on that.The legend himself @Anonymous
I wish I could provided some DPs on the recency segmentation for a PR because my collections account with PRA shows an age of 1yr8mo so it's getting reallly close to that 2 yr mark, but I would rather get rid of it now.. LOL
Regarding the recency segmentation for the COs though, my AMEX is kinda reporting inconsistently between my 3B CRs. EX shows paid/was charge-off and doesn't have a fall off date on the report, while TU shows PIF/was a charge off but that the fall off date would be 03/2022? (Which is 7 yrs based off the date the account was opened) EQ just shows "CHARGE-OFF" and no fall off date but a DOFD of Nov 2019..
Idk if I should try reaching out to AMEX about reporting it more consistently but im not sure if that might end up biting me in the butt in some form.
I know there's no definite way of testing whether or not a scorecard is matured or recent, but would possibly applying for something and having a denial with a reason code relating to "recent deliquency/derogatory" or even on myFICO 3B pull on what negative items are impacting my score that show something similar regarding whether or not the 2 yr cut-off applies?
@bicboiOD my pleasure and I totally understand, I would get rid of the CA if I could as well... unless you're not doing anything for 4 months anyway? 😉 lol.
If you paid the chargeoff on Experian, it appears that the chargeoff will drop at 7 years and the account will remain.
as for TransUnion, it should fall off 7 years from the DOFD not from the opening date, but you may not want to rattle that cage because it sounds like it's falling off early.
and Equifax is way different. What is the correct DOFD, do you know? Sounds like you may have to fix that one. No I don't think I would reach out to American Express yet. They can update all three bureaus and that could screw you at TransUnion if that's in your favor. Let's figure out what's right and what's wrong and then you can individually address it at each bureau if necessary.
there is a way to know whether it's a recent or mature delinquency Scorecard as explained above, but for a PR card,we have not yet confirmed the segmentation threshold so... there's no way to be too sure about that
No, opening up an account would not fulfill the purpose you seek. You can obtain your negative reason codes by purchasing your score, or a 3B would do that. However, that will not tell us whether the public record is putting you in a recent or mature dirty scorecard. I'm not aware of any reason codes that are specific to only mature or recent dirty scorecards.
Also it's not really a cutoff. It's just a transition point, it's a segmentation threshold. you move from one dirty scorecard to a different dirty scorecard at that point.
I can already tell you you have a public record reason code. Also, the main difference in shifting from a recent to a mature dirty scorecard is a score increase, so I'm not sure it's going to benefit you greatly to know whether it is recent or mature anyway really. But it's a great academic question.
your path forward depends on what the DOFD really is.
@OmarGB9 there is no two-year cut off for collections. There is a threshold where you change scorecards from a recent PR card to a mature PR card. I don't think you would see any difference in Reason Codes. None that I'm aware of. What you would see is a score change unexplained buy anything else on the first of the month.
@Anonymous Haha, I wouldn't mind running some DPs in other aspects of my credit profile depending on what changes over the next few months for me! I appreciate the very in depth responses!
But I will definitely try and update once I get the CA deleted from my CR in the next month and see how my 3B reports look once they reflect the tradeline being removed.
@bicboiOD I look forward to your updates. Keep in mind going from a PR card to a delinquency card can cause unpredictable results. I don't know which way it will go; it's profile dependent. good luck and look forward to your results!