AZEO vs 2-9%

[SouthJamaica]

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

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I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Kinglord wrote:

Hi all,

My questions -  Is the All Zero except One better than a 2-9% utilization on every card? 

Also, in terms of profile, do I need any other cards such as a retail to improve?  My overall goal is improved credit score/profile to buy a home within 18-24 months.

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@Kinglord, read the post by @Gmood1  in this thread. (#8).

Besides various tests I have done on the credit scoring system, I let all 4 of my cards report a balance each month. I never let any of them report above 9.0%, but that threshold isn't really necessary. I'd rather go into the mortgage process 3 years from now with a long history of actual payments being made every month on every card.

Besides, they're going to be looking at lot more financial profile detail than a simple credit score can show. People get the best mortgage rates all the time with only 2 or 3 cards.

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Regardless of what balance is reported, it is discernible from your credit report that the card was used and actual payments made.

[NRB525]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

---

I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

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The idea with letting balances report naturally ( in my case nearly all of 20 cards had activity nearly every month of 2019 ) is that it builds up a history of reported balances. This shows you are using credit. In some cases I end up with 5 digits of "Balance This Month" with the idea that I'm using the card within terms, and desensitizing other banks so they don't freak out if I let $100 report on a card somewhere. The concern being conveyed is, by zeroing nearly everything, the normal use of credit is not displayed for all banks to see.

It is true that actual FICO Score is not improved by letting balances report, in fact the Number of Cards Reporting can bring your score down a few points, even if at low utilization. Nobody disputes that ( or should not dispute it ). Utilization has no memory, so this is all fleeting.

But unless one is applying for a mortgage, letting all cards report something doesn't matter to anyone. So the easy thing to do is, let cards report natural balances, pay in full by the payment due date, and when a mortgage or car loan app is on the horizon, start corralling the ponies so only one ( or simply fewer ) end up reporting. Utilization and Card Count then improves... presto-chango score improves.

And once you reach a certain point in Mortgage apps, even this exercise probably doesn't change the mortgage offer you get. It becomes more of a negotiation for window dressing on cards.

[sarge12]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

---

I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

---

The idea with letting balances report naturally ( in my case nearly all of 20 cards had activity nearly every month of 2019 ) is that it builds up a history of reported balances. This shows you are using credit. In some cases I end up with 5 digits of "Balance This Month" with the idea that I'm using the card within terms, and desensitizing other banks so they don't freak out if I let $100 report on a card somewhere. The concern being conveyed is, by zeroing nearly everything, the normal use of credit is not displayed for all banks to see.

It is true that actual FICO Score is not improved by letting balances report, in fact the Number of Cards Reporting can bring your score down a few points, even if at low utilization. Nobody disputes that ( or should not dispute it ). Utilization has no memory, so this is all fleeting.

But unless one is applying for a mortgage, letting all cards report something doesn't matter to anyone. So the easy thing to do is, let cards report natural balances, pay in full by the payment due date, and when a mortgage or car loan app is on the horizon, start corralling the ponies so only one ( or simply fewer ) end up reporting. Utilization and Card Count then improves... presto-chango score improves.

And once you reach a certain point in Mortgage apps, even this exercise probably doesn't change the mortgage offer you get. It becomes more of a negotiation for window dressing on cards.

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Until recently this was true, but fico 10, and 10T are going to use historical data of 24 months. If lenders adopt these new fico score models, that point in time metric of utilization might matter a lot. I doubt the mortgage lenders that still use fico 2, 4, and 5 will be too quick to adopt a new score, but it could be possible. I would advise everybody to start treating utilization as if it will carry a history, but I always have. There has even been some who say the mortgage lenders were the driving force behind the new fico scores.

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Kinglord wrote:

Hi all,

My questions -  Is the All Zero except One better than a 2-9% utilization on every card? 

Also, in terms of profile, do I need any other cards such as a retail to improve?  My overall goal is improved credit score/profile to buy a home within 18-24 months.

---

@Kinglord, read the post by @Gmood1  in this thread. (#8).

Besides various tests I have done on the credit scoring system, I let all 4 of my cards report a balance each month. I never let any of them report above 9.0%, but that threshold isn't really necessary. I'd rather go into the mortgage process 3 years from now with a long history of actual payments being made every month on every card.

Besides, they're going to be looking at lot more financial profile detail than a simple credit score can show. People get the best mortgage rates all the time with only 2 or 3 cards.

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In truth, a mortgage is not granted or declined by any credit score. Before approval a detailed 3b pull is gone over like an IRS agent being paid by commission. The lender will go over the data line by line before agreeing to extend a loan that might run 30 years. Once approved the mortgage scores use the middle score to set the interest rate. If any lender uses the scores themselves to underwrite the approval, I have never heard of it. My understanding is that mortgage lenders do not even know the scores until the martgage is approved. This is done from what I have been told, to make sure the underwriter is not influenced by a score alone, and some items might present questions without dragging down the score. Those applying for a mortgage often focus only on the mortgage scores, when it is smart to do a full 3b pull to scan for items that need to be addressed. You can bet the lender will, and if discrepencies exist you need to be able to explain them. It is smart to focus on the scores to get the lowest rates, just don't ignore the actual report data and anything on those reports. If anybody knows of any mortgage lender that does not do all mortgages as manual reviews, please let me know. For both of mine, it was very detailed.

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

---

I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

---

The idea with letting balances report naturally ( in my case nearly all of 20 cards had activity nearly every month of 2019 ) is that it builds up a history of reported balances. This shows you are using credit. In some cases I end up with 5 digits of "Balance This Month" with the idea that I'm using the card within terms, and desensitizing other banks so they don't freak out if I let $100 report on a card somewhere. The concern being conveyed is, by zeroing nearly everything, the normal use of credit is not displayed for all banks to see.

It is true that actual FICO Score is not improved by letting balances report, in fact the Number of Cards Reporting can bring your score down a few points, even if at low utilization. Nobody disputes that ( or should not dispute it ). Utilization has no memory, so this is all fleeting.

But unless one is applying for a mortgage, letting all cards report something doesn't matter to anyone. So the easy thing to do is, let cards report natural balances, pay in full by the payment due date, and when a mortgage or car loan app is on the horizon, start corralling the ponies so only one ( or simply fewer ) end up reporting. Utilization and Card Count then improves... presto-chango score improves.

And once you reach a certain point in Mortgage apps, even this exercise probably doesn't change the mortgage offer you get. It becomes more of a negotiation for window dressing on cards.

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Couldn't you even say to possibly do AZEO before *any* credit apps, really?

I have been through so many threads that it also seems people got denied for having too high revolving balances.

I am working with toy limits. To let them naturally report would be to let them report maxxed out.

Honestly, items at WS that I have acthally purchased was not with the CC because the limit is simply too low. So when I can use it, generally it is maxxed out.

Cap One I use everywhere as I am building up use with them, but have to pay down my 300 limit sometimes 3-4 x a week! So generally it puts me in a good place to pay them naturally right around the time the statement cuts. Otherwise if I let it report naturally it would be maxxed out.

I am just saying it sounds like even though some are saying "let it report use" it is still manipulated by being 9% or less or 29% or less, etc. I guess if I had more than 300 bucks to work with, I too, could maybe let them report more naturally. I am still on the fence about this. Internally, the CCC can see my history of use with them, would they still really only use what has been reporting on my CR to get CLIs?

The up and coming 10T is making me nefvous due to factoring in trended data...so if I constantly report maxxed out, that would be negative, right?

[sarge12]

@Anonymous Any credit apps you submit will also know you are dealing with toy limits, so the high utilization is not as important with such low balances. Just be certain you never exceed the limits or make any payments late and time will do the rest. It will for certain take time to improve, but gradually Cap1 will raise the limit, and other approvals will be granted as long as you don't mess it up. A maxxed out 300 dollar limit is not in itself going to create nervous denials due to utilization. Those type of limits just are not looked at like you are maxxing out a 20,000 dollar credit line. Utilization is such a key indicator due to it pointing to someone who has debt getting out of control. A nearly maxxed out 300 dollar line means little, but can indicate you are handling that small amount well enough for an increase. It is about building trust at this point, not maintaining a pre-determined utilization....that will come later. That being said, to come as close to the ideals in AZEO will surely not hurt, but do want to show regular use.

[SouthJamaica]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

---

I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

---

The idea with letting balances report naturally ( in my case nearly all of 20 cards had activity nearly every month of 2019 ) is that it builds up a history of reported balances. This shows you are using credit. In some cases I end up with 5 digits of "Balance This Month" with the idea that I'm using the card within terms, and desensitizing other banks so they don't freak out if I let $100 report on a card somewhere. The concern being conveyed is, by zeroing nearly everything, the normal use of credit is not displayed for all banks to see.

It is true that actual FICO Score is not improved by letting balances report, in fact the Number of Cards Reporting can bring your score down a few points, even if at low utilization. Nobody disputes that ( or should not dispute it ). Utilization has no memory, so this is all fleeting.

But unless one is applying for a mortgage, letting all cards report something doesn't matter to anyone. So the easy thing to do is, let cards report natural balances, pay in full by the payment due date, and when a mortgage or car loan app is on the horizon, start corralling the ponies so only one ( or simply fewer ) end up reporting. Utilization and Card Count then improves... presto-chango score improves.

And once you reach a certain point in Mortgage apps, even this exercise probably doesn't change the mortgage offer you get. It becomes more of a negotiation for window dressing on cards.

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1. It is discernible from the credit report data that an account was active during a particular month. The reported balance does not provide that information.

2. Before the internet, it was "natural" to wait until a paper statement arrived, and then pay it. Now there is nothing "natural" about it. What is "natural" is what comes naturally to each borrower. In my case I find it more "natural" to pay as soon as I feel like it. It helps me sleep better naturally.

[Anonymous]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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1. It is discernible from the credit report data that an account was active during a particular month. The reported balance does not provide that information.

Yes, anyone could tell by the 'Last Payment Date'. Even if the reported balance was $0, that date will be there if something was paid right before statement cut or any other time during the cycle.

I only have one card that reports the total actual payments made each month, and that's the credit union/PSCU one. They report full trended data and actual total payment amount.

But with Citi, Discover, and Amex, the only way to tell how much I actually used the card is via the reported balance.

[Gmood1]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Gmood1 wrote:

@Anonymous 

You gotta let something post. I've stated it many times on the forum. Manipulating the scores by a few points, isn't building payment history.

I understand you guys are trying to squeeze every point that you can out. Leave the AZEO stuff for when you plan to take out a mortgage.

And don't bother with it then, until you're down to the last couple of months before you apply for the mortgage.

New folks come in the forum all the time. And assume its a magic bullet to great scores and credit. It is not. Great credit comes from building credit history and on time recordable payments.

I've seen members with high scores turned down for credit from the likes of Chase. Only because their credit history is so shallow and doesn't show any payment history. Why? Because they thought paying everything before statements cut is the best way to build credit.

---

I have yet to see anyone prove that having more than one account with a balance improves one's scores.

IMHO that is pure mythology.

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@SouthJamaica 

It has nothing to do with improving scores. It's showing other lenders that you use your cards and pay them monthly.

Not ALL lenders report your usage, if you pay before the statement cuts. I believe @Anonymous  has recognized this.

I have enough of them. It's easy for me to prove this without a shadow of doubt.

@Anonymous 

In your situation, you do what you must. I completely understand. As your limits grow, allow more of your usage to report.

Unless it causes you to lose sleep like @SouthJamaica . lol

5 years ago I had $2600 in CLs across two CCs. Clearly what I'm telling you is mythology.