If you have a mortgage app coming up, the FICO 8 scores are interesting, but the mortgage scores are structured differently. Just work toward AZEO and that is a simple target.
You have several cards with large limits. The types of rewards you get on the various cards will not amount to much difference on the spend you have over the next few months.
My suggestion would be to sock drawer all but one of the cards, and use only that one card. The BCE has a large limit and gets 1% everywhere, 3% on groceries in some stores. This gives you only one statement date to worry about since everything else is paying off and not distracting you. From comments in the Credit Card forum, a large BCE limit that sees little use is at risk of becoming half that limit. If you want that $40k limit to remain, this ( getting to AZEO ) would be a good excuse to “invest” some volume of swipes and spend to show AMEX you care about the card.
If you must use another card, do that during the week after that statement cut, then back to the SD and pay it. However the marginal rewards on that use is probably extremely small. You don’t have a Freedom, or Discover it, or Cash+. Even if you had a gas benefit card, the tank of gas isn’t significant spend to really beat out the BCE.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:The key is the phrases I have highlighted above. You are engaged in a ton of work. It's unclear why you want to do all that work. Are you about to buy a house?
Yeah, I'm thinking about buying a house, and if I do, it'll be in June, so the HP will likely be in May. So I'm starting in on doing this to optimize my score.
Seems I've gotten about 10 points from AZET, as opposed to previously when I just let everything report and used autopay to pay statement balance in full. My score was 760 back then, now this month it's 770, with my FICO2 reporting as 779 on EX via CCT. I do have one more bump coming as my last and only HP will hit 12 months in April and fall off--so that should give me an extra push as well.
I had meant to AZEO and gone in and paid my full balances to zero just ahead of statement cut on all my cards except one, where I left a small balance. That mostly worked, but a few charges went through in the last day and resulted in very small balances reporting on a couple of cards--like, $20 on a $30k limit. So almost nothing, but also not zero.
I can see that to do AZEO fully I'm either going to have to pre-pay the cards to negative amounts so these small charges don't bring it back above zero, or else stop using these cards completely for the next while.
Yes even a $4 balance counts as a balance and does affect the mortgage scores.
I don't know where the breakpoints are for the various mortgage scores personally though TT and others had some better data on that. I'm still confident it's percentage based like FICO 8 for revolvers, but assuming everything counts for this calculation (no exclusions for HELOC's, Amex charge cards, etc):
19 open accounts
4 revolvers + 3 installment with balances = 7
36..8% reporting a balance.
EX FICO 2: 776, #2, nothing besides a CFA, inquiries, new accounts, and of course AAOA.
EX FICO 5: It doesn't show up on this score in the reason codes as there's enough wrong with this file (30D late that still counts as recent so double-dips on the reason codes, new accounts, and AAOA), but I took a drop compared to where I was before and it's not revolving utilization related and nothing other than balances have changed so it's probably this.
TU FICO 4: 740, 60D late, double-dipped as recent, and it's #3. Admittedly new accounts isn't a factor in the dirty scorecards and there's no inquiries on this file, but it's even above the usual AAOA complaint.
I'm probably not going to get enough datapoints on anything but EX FICO 2 to really see how the score reacts, and to be fair I'm at 740 now which is the top end for conventional underwriting not including PMI calc. But anyway this is my point: even a pretty normal number of balances can be a penalty as clearly shown in the reason codes... hence AZEO aka putting as much lipstick on the pig as possible.
Actually huh: I do have some datapoints.
3/29: 8/19 accounts = 42.11%
3/31: 7/19 accounts = 36.84%
EX FICO 2: No change
EQ FICO 5: 706 ->715 (previously was 723 on 2/22 so probably two breakpoints)
Looks like 2/5 account ratio is probably a line for EQ FICO 5, oh jeez I hope the next line is at 1/3 or even 1/4 rather than 1/5.
That actually should bring the point home when talking mortgages, 715 vs. 723 is a tier change (at 720 for the GSE's), which materially affects your interest rate on the mortgage... that's why if you aren't gold plated, get as clean as possible.
Actually looking at that math I'm definitely pleased FICO 8 switched to revolvers: I don't know what the lower breakpoint is but even if it's 1/3 for example math, to buffer 2 installment loans plus the obligatory revolver you'd need 7 revolvers at $0. And it gets even worse if you either have more installment loans (like I currently do) or if the line is at 1/4 or 1/5.
Crap I may need to figure this out actually being stuck with a late on two bureaus for the next 6 years or so, my plan to let some of my revolvers idle until closed by credit grantor might not be smart for ruthless mortgage score optimization... also sort of obliterates the commonly promoted "how many tradelines do I need?" answers, ugh.
FICO this blows, and actually for mortgage optimization it might be better not to have an open installment loan at all looking at that... sorry SSL, really are excluded from the FICO reindeer games.
@Revelate wrote:Actually huh: I do have some datapoints.
3/29: 8/19 accounts = 42.11%
3/31: 7/19 accounts = 36.84%
EX FICO 2: No change
EQ FICO 5: 706 ->715 (previously was 723 on 2/22 so probably two breakpoints)
Looks like 2/5 account ratio is probably a line for EQ FICO 5, oh jeez I hope the next line is at 1/3 or even 1/4 rather than 1/5.
That actually should bring the point home when talking mortgages, 715 vs. 723 is a tier change (at 720 for the GSE's), which materially affects your interest rate on the mortgage... that's why if you aren't gold plated, get as clean as possible.
Actually looking at that math I'm definitely pleased FICO 8 switched to revolvers: I don't know what the lower breakpoint is but even if it's 1/3 for example math, to buffer 2 installment loans plus the obligatory revolver you'd need 7 revolvers at $0. And it gets even worse if you either have more installment loans (like I currently do) or if the line is at 1/4 or 1/5.
Crap I may need to figure this out actually being stuck with a late on two bureaus for the next 6 years or so, my plan to let some of my revolvers idle until closed by credit grantor might not be smart for ruthless mortgage score optimization... also sort of obliterates the commonly promoted "how many tradelines do I need?" answers, ugh.
FICO this blows, and actually for mortgage optimization it might be better not to have an open installment loan at all looking at that... sorry SSL, really are excluded from the FICO reindeer games.
My recent experiences with EX FICO 2 have suggested that 40% of accounts with balances is a breakpoint. It appeared that I was losing & gaining 11 points in FICO 2 as I went over and under 40%.
@Revelate wrote:Actually huh: I do have some datapoints.
3/29: 8/19 accounts = 42.11%
3/31: 7/19 accounts = 36.84%
EX FICO 2: No change
EQ FICO 5: 706 ->715 (previously was 723 on 2/22 so probably two breakpoints)
Looks like 2/5 account ratio is probably a line for EQ FICO 5, oh jeez I hope the next line is at 1/3 or even 1/4 rather than 1/5.
That actually should bring the point home when talking mortgages, 715 vs. 723 is a tier change (at 720 for the GSE's), which materially affects your interest rate on the mortgage... that's why if you aren't gold plated, get as clean as possible.
Actually looking at that math I'm definitely pleased FICO 8 switched to revolvers: I don't know what the lower breakpoint is but even if it's 1/3 for example math, to buffer 2 installment loans plus the obligatory revolver you'd need 7 revolvers at $0. And it gets even worse if you either have more installment loans (like I currently do) or if the line is at 1/4 or 1/5.
Crap I may need to figure this out actually being stuck with a late on two bureaus for the next 6 years or so, my plan to let some of my revolvers idle until closed by credit grantor might not be smart for ruthless mortgage score optimization... also sort of obliterates the commonly promoted "how many tradelines do I need?" answers, ugh.
FICO this blows, and actually for mortgage optimization it might be better not to have an open installment loan at all looking at that... sorry SSL, really are excluded from the FICO reindeer games.
My experience was that EQ 5 and EX 2 had no reaction at all to installment utilization benchmarks, but TU 4 did react -- similarly to FICO 8 but with only about 20% of the signal strength.
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Revelate wrote:Actually huh: I do have some datapoints.
3/29: 8/19 accounts = 42.11%
3/31: 7/19 accounts = 36.84%
EX FICO 2: No change
EQ FICO 5: 706 ->715 (previously was 723 on 2/22 so probably two breakpoints)
Looks like 2/5 account ratio is probably a line for EQ FICO 5, oh jeez I hope the next line is at 1/3 or even 1/4 rather than 1/5.
That actually should bring the point home when talking mortgages, 715 vs. 723 is a tier change (at 720 for the GSE's), which materially affects your interest rate on the mortgage... that's why if you aren't gold plated, get as clean as possible.
Actually looking at that math I'm definitely pleased FICO 8 switched to revolvers: I don't know what the lower breakpoint is but even if it's 1/3 for example math, to buffer 2 installment loans plus the obligatory revolver you'd need 7 revolvers at $0. And it gets even worse if you either have more installment loans (like I currently do) or if the line is at 1/4 or 1/5.
Crap I may need to figure this out actually being stuck with a late on two bureaus for the next 6 years or so, my plan to let some of my revolvers idle until closed by credit grantor might not be smart for ruthless mortgage score optimization... also sort of obliterates the commonly promoted "how many tradelines do I need?" answers, ugh.
FICO this blows, and actually for mortgage optimization it might be better not to have an open installment loan at all looking at that... sorry SSL, really are excluded from the FICO reindeer games.
My recent experiences with EX FICO 2 have suggested that 40% of accounts with balances is a breakpoint. It appeared that I was losing & gaining 11 points in FICO 2 as I went over and under 40%.
I think actually now that you mention it both our numbers may be off with those weird Credit Union tradelines not counting for revolving utilization metrics. We've had some differences in the past too with our data.
Assuming CU's count as normal pretty sure my Experian one is gold-plated datapoint: it stayed fixed utterly flat without movement in reason codes.
Wouldn't have been any other reason my EQ was so low at a 706 compared to prior scores and I was seriously surprised at the score from here setting up to check a 30D late at one year... it wasn't till I combed through reports to see that my Chase that I'd paid to $0 had already landed and it wasn't the case two days ago. I don't really know what else it could've been as my utilization is really minimal
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Revelate wrote:Actually huh: I do have some datapoints.
3/29: 8/19 accounts = 42.11%
3/31: 7/19 accounts = 36.84%
EX FICO 2: No change
EQ FICO 5: 706 ->715 (previously was 723 on 2/22 so probably two breakpoints)
Looks like 2/5 account ratio is probably a line for EQ FICO 5, oh jeez I hope the next line is at 1/3 or even 1/4 rather than 1/5.
That actually should bring the point home when talking mortgages, 715 vs. 723 is a tier change (at 720 for the GSE's), which materially affects your interest rate on the mortgage... that's why if you aren't gold plated, get as clean as possible.
Actually looking at that math I'm definitely pleased FICO 8 switched to revolvers: I don't know what the lower breakpoint is but even if it's 1/3 for example math, to buffer 2 installment loans plus the obligatory revolver you'd need 7 revolvers at $0. And it gets even worse if you either have more installment loans (like I currently do) or if the line is at 1/4 or 1/5.
Crap I may need to figure this out actually being stuck with a late on two bureaus for the next 6 years or so, my plan to let some of my revolvers idle until closed by credit grantor might not be smart for ruthless mortgage score optimization... also sort of obliterates the commonly promoted "how many tradelines do I need?" answers, ugh.
FICO this blows, and actually for mortgage optimization it might be better not to have an open installment loan at all looking at that... sorry SSL, really are excluded from the FICO reindeer games.
My experience was that EQ 5 and EX 2 had no reaction at all to installment utilization benchmarks, but TU 4 did react -- similarly to FICO 8 but with only about 20% of the signal strength.
Wasn't my point but your file has been so busy on those datapoints that I had a hard time discounting my own data 
.
Basically this: if an installment loan counts as it absolutely appears to on all of the mortgage trifecta for number of accounts reporting balances, and if it is percentage based (which is a reasonable assertion but maybe it's on total number which might explain our disparity in that data) then you need other tradelines at $0 to balance that out.
Say the number is at 1/3, then for every installment loan you pick up you need 3 additional revolvers at $0 to optimize it... keep adding if the ratio is worse, 1/4 = 4 additional revolvers, 1/5 = 5 additional revolvers. That's where I was going, SSL is a neat trick for FICO 8 optimization and our data disagrees with installment utilization's impact on the older models, but in the run up for a mortgage it might be best to just pay it off.
In my case with my scores depressed because of lates on two bureaus I do need to figure it out for optimizing my score if I need to pull the trigger on a mortgage app again.