AZEO

[Anonymous]

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@credit8502020 wrote:

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@credit8502020 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
The payment grid is probably wrong. You should check if you can the real date.

Payment grid isn’t what it goes by tho, goes by date in field. Come back after you read.

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Ok. Gotcha! Will do.

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@Anonymous @AllZero 

So I'm back with some updates and data points. For ease, I decided to show the specific changes,  since I last posted

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UPDATES:
FICO 8

TU - 713, NOW - 731

EXP - 708, NOW - 714

EQ - 666, Same (Still has C/O reporting)

1 TU Inquiries - 9/26/20

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My AU Home Depot Account (I really thank God for my Mother and her adding me to her Home Depot Card.)

$3700 - Posted on 9/23/20 *** Saw a 16 point (TU) & 6 point (EXP) increase!!! 

*This not only added another account, but also added my highest tradeline and helped with my

aggregate utilization since I have a $3400 closed Discover card. While I can not prove this, there is a good

chance that it helped me get the limit that I was able to get on my next card...

I applied for and got a NFCU Cash Rewards Card for $18,000! Thank you Jesus!!! I'm really excited about this card for more than one reason. One reason, however, is it is the highest credit limit I've had on one single card. I've learned so much on this journey and look forward to making more and even better strategic moves. If I read the Primer correctly, because of the lates, I still have a dirty scorecard and adding new accounts will not penalize me in the same way as if I had a clean scorecard. While I'm not looking to go on a credit card spree, I would much rather get one more credit card now and have the HPs fall off around the same time before I wait another 6 months to get another card. I have some rather large expenses (For my Mother's birthday, Tuition, Potential Home Renovation, etc.) coming up between now and the end of the year and I would much rather benefit from those on my credit cards than not. In about 6 months, I'm going to be preparing to apply for business credit cards as well because my business expenses are also going to increase and I'd rather put them on my credit card than pay cash for them.

Further, my I have an Open Sky credit card with a $750 balance on it and want to prepare to eventually get rid of the card.

Would it be helpful to add my Mother to my NFCU card? I just want to make sure adding her won't hurt her scores in any way. Although I thought AU cards are most helpful with great history/length, I thought maybe it could still help with lowering her utilization even more. However, I did not want to overlook something else that may not be as helpful if I add her. Although she definitely has better scores and history than I (mid 700s), NFCU only approved her for $3,000 and I am almost certain it's because she had just joined. The only negatives she had on her report was unfortunately because of my lates on my student loan and the joint Discover card that she added me on. So I'm clearly looking for ways to make her scores get as high as possible as quickly as possible. She would have almost assuredly been in the 800s without my lates. Please share any advice for how I could help increase her scores. I helped her apply for 2 credit cards. $3,000 with NFCU and $5,000 with another credit union in August. In 91 days, I'm going to request a CLI increase on the NFCU card. She only has 1 inquiry on each bureau & EXP inquiry will fall off in Nov 2020. I know one of the things that was impacting her was a higher utilization amount because I have the closed Discover card with the balance I'm paying. It would be great to be able to help her get a larger bank card. We were looking at Chase, but I didn't want to risk it because of the string of lates I had from 8/18, 9/18 & 10/18. Any suggestions for banks that are not as sensitive to "lates"?

Well, you've now been updated!!! LOL! I really thank God for this journey and for you being on it with me as well.

Now I'm off to setting up AZEO for this month to see how it impacts my scores. However, I want to get clarity after reading this in the Primer.

***"A note of caution about your AZEO card. Do use a national bankcard. Avoid retail cards, credit union cards, and charge cards, as they can cause unintended consequences."***

Question 1: Home Depot is considered a retail card correct? Therefore, will this have a negative impact if it reports a small balance?

Question 2: Are you suggesting by the comment above that I can never use my NFCU Visa to show a balance as a part of the AZEO method?

Note sure this scenario is still right after reading the Primer...

1. Capitol One - Less than 4.5% (As was mentioned to me earlier in the thread)
2. Open Sky Card - $0
3. AU on Home Depot Card - Small Balance - $16

***NFCU of course is not in the equation because it won't report this month yet.***

Thanks again!  

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@credit8502020 wow it sounds like you have done your homework and learned quite a bit and ask some good questions that I'll try to answer. Nice gains by the way, congratulations!

Yes Home Depot is retail. If that is your only authorized user account, I would suggest having a small balance on it or you will get an AU AZ penalty, even though you will probably suffer a small penalty, which would be less if it were a bankcard. Retail cards are kinda unpredictable.

I think navy cards actually work fine, but I'm not positive, you'll have to test it or maybe someone will experience can chime in. 

if you add her to your new card it will help her utilization but it will cause scorecard reassignment and put her in a new account scorecard which will lower her score maybe 15 points, so I don't know whether your gains from utilization would be enough to offset that for it to be worthwhile. Now if you wait till it's a year old and then add her it will have the effect you desire.

does she have a loan? If not you could use the SSLT strategy to improve her scores in the short term. 

no to the chase. Yes the set up you have for AZEO+ AU should work fine to maximize your scores for version eight. To maximize for 542 you would also want the Home Depot zeroed out. 

I also agree with the strategy of going ahead and getting what you're going to get and then stop applying. Go ahead and get it while you're there in a dirty scorecard. You are correct that new accounts do not penalize you in the same way there.

However on 542 you go back to a clean card after two years from the delinquency. So by getting a new account it puts you in a new account scorecard there I believe for 12 months, so you do suffer the new account penalty on the mortgage scores.  

I think I answered everything if I missed anything tell me

[Anonymous]

She needs to wait until at least November because her scores will go up then as the lates age. There are a couple good threads on credit unions and banks.

[credit8502020]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@credit8502020 wrote:

---

@credit8502020 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:
The payment grid is probably wrong. You should check if you can the real date.

Payment grid isn’t what it goes by tho, goes by date in field. Come back after you read.

---

Ok. Gotcha! Will do.

---

@Anonymous @AllZero 

So I'm back with some updates and data points. For ease, I decided to show the specific changes,  since I last posted

---

UPDATES:
FICO 8

TU - 713, NOW - 731

EXP - 708, NOW - 714

EQ - 666, Same (Still has C/O reporting)

1 TU Inquiries - 9/26/20

---

My AU Home Depot Account (I really thank God for my Mother and her adding me to her Home Depot Card.)

$3700 - Posted on 9/23/20 *** Saw a 16 point (TU) & 6 point (EXP) increase!!! 

*This not only added another account, but also added my highest tradeline and helped with my

aggregate utilization since I have a $3400 closed Discover card. While I can not prove this, there is a good

chance that it helped me get the limit that I was able to get on my next card...

I applied for and got a NFCU Cash Rewards Card for $18,000! Thank you Jesus!!! I'm really excited about this card for more than one reason. One reason, however, is it is the highest credit limit I've had on one single card. I've learned so much on this journey and look forward to making more and even better strategic moves. If I read the Primer correctly, because of the lates, I still have a dirty scorecard and adding new accounts will not penalize me in the same way as if I had a clean scorecard. While I'm not looking to go on a credit card spree, I would much rather get one more credit card now and have the HPs fall off around the same time before I wait another 6 months to get another card. I have some rather large expenses (For my Mother's birthday, Tuition, Potential Home Renovation, etc.) coming up between now and the end of the year and I would much rather benefit from those on my credit cards than not. In about 6 months, I'm going to be preparing to apply for business credit cards as well because my business expenses are also going to increase and I'd rather put them on my credit card than pay cash for them.

Further, my I have an Open Sky credit card with a $750 balance on it and want to prepare to eventually get rid of the card.

Would it be helpful to add my Mother to my NFCU card? I just want to make sure adding her won't hurt her scores in any way. Although I thought AU cards are most helpful with great history/length, I thought maybe it could still help with lowering her utilization even more. However, I did not want to overlook something else that may not be as helpful if I add her. Although she definitely has better scores and history than I (mid 700s), NFCU only approved her for $3,000 and I am almost certain it's because she had just joined. The only negatives she had on her report was unfortunately because of my lates on my student loan and the joint Discover card that she added me on. So I'm clearly looking for ways to make her scores get as high as possible as quickly as possible. She would have almost assuredly been in the 800s without my lates. Please share any advice for how I could help increase her scores. I helped her apply for 2 credit cards. $3,000 with NFCU and $5,000 with another credit union in August. In 91 days, I'm going to request a CLI increase on the NFCU card. She only has 1 inquiry on each bureau & EXP inquiry will fall off in Nov 2020. I know one of the things that was impacting her was a higher utilization amount because I have the closed Discover card with the balance I'm paying. It would be great to be able to help her get a larger bank card. We were looking at Chase, but I didn't want to risk it because of the string of lates I had from 8/18, 9/18 & 10/18. Any suggestions for banks that are not as sensitive to "lates"?

Well, you've now been updated!!! LOL! I really thank God for this journey and for you being on it with me as well.

Now I'm off to setting up AZEO for this month to see how it impacts my scores. However, I want to get clarity after reading this in the Primer.

***"A note of caution about your AZEO card. Do use a national bankcard. Avoid retail cards, credit union cards, and charge cards, as they can cause unintended consequences."***

Question 1: Home Depot is considered a retail card correct? Therefore, will this have a negative impact if it reports a small balance?

Question 2: Are you suggesting by the comment above that I can never use my NFCU Visa to show a balance as a part of the AZEO method?

Note sure this scenario is still right after reading the Primer...

1. Capitol One - Less than 4.5% (As was mentioned to me earlier in the thread)
2. Open Sky Card - $0
3. AU on Home Depot Card - Small Balance - $16

***NFCU of course is not in the equation because it won't report this month yet.***

Thanks again!  

---

@credit8502020 wow it sounds like you have done your homework and learned quite a bit and ask some good questions that I'll try to answer. Nice gains by the way, congratulations!

Yes Home Depot is retail. If that is your only authorized user account, I would suggest having a small balance on it or you will get an AU AZ penalty, even though you will probably suffer a small penalty, which would be less if it were a bankcard. Retail cards are kinda unpredictable.

I think navy cards actually work fine, but I'm not positive, you'll have to test it or maybe someone will experience can chime in. 

if you add her to your new card it will help her utilization but it will cause scorecard reassignment and put her in a new account scorecard which will lower her score maybe 15 points, so I don't know whether your gains from utilization would be enough to offset that for it to be worthwhile. Now if you wait till it's a year old and then add her it will have the effect you desire.

does she have a loan? If not you could use the SSLT strategy to improve her scores in the short term. 

no to the chase. Yes the set up you have for AZEO+ AU should work fine to maximize your scores for version eight. To maximize for 542 you would also want the Home Depot zeroed out. 

I also agree with the strategy of going ahead and getting what you're going to get and then stop applying. Go ahead and get it while you're there in a dirty scorecard. You are correct that new accounts do not penalize you in the same way there.

However on 542 you go back to a clean card after two years from the delinquency. So by getting a new account it puts you in a new account scorecard there I believe for 12 months, so you do suffer the new account penalty on the mortgage scores.  

I think I answered everything if I missed anything tell me

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@Anonymous Ok. Thank you! Yes, she has a loan. Since she just opened those other 2 cards (NFCU - $3000 & Signal - $5000) at the end of August wouldn't she already be in or soon be in the new scorecard? Neither of the cards have posted yet. She's not looking for new credit right now, but I'm focused on helping her build it to the best place possible so I can increase her access to more funds for doing home upgrades....which will be soon.

[credit8502020]

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@Anonymous wrote:
She needs to wait until at least November because her scores will go up then as the lates age. There are a couple good threads on credit unions and banks.

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Ok. Thanks! 

[Anonymous]

@credit8502020 Yes good point she’s already on a new account scorecard. Wait a minute you said she had delinquencies, so she’s in a dirty card too, isn’t she?

Yeah go ahead and add her. She’s in a dirty card, so it would not have the same effect anyway, as you said earlier. What’s her average ages though? it will bring that down a little, but reduction utilization may very well outweigh that since it’s worth much more. Besides utilization and age are weighted less heavily on dirty cards.

[NRB525]

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@credit8502020 wrote:

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Ok. Duly noted. I thought of another question. Does AZEO count AU cards as well in the equation or just primary accounts?

Most of my clients are preparing for a mortgage loan so it may definitely be good for them. I'm going to suggest to them to switch to the AZEO method, instead of 2% on each card. There is a loan officer online who sticks to a method of having 2 credit cards report $20 on each cards to obtain higher scores. I haven't tested it, but I thought it to be an interesting suggesting. She uses it with her clients. 

. 

. 

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The reason the loan officer suggests 2 cards with $20 each is because it lowers the risk of having all cards report zero, when the person tries to play games with All Zero Except One. That All Zero penalty is harsh.

The idea to have all cards report 2% balances is also a good one, again because it avoids problems when the cardholder tries to get too cute without really understanding all that is going on. Getting all cards to 2% reduces utilization, both on each card and in aggregate, which is the main point of AZEO. The AZEO final stages are only tweaking the last few points due to number of cards reporting, after utilization has been brought down.

In your own case, I doubt you will see significant improvement from AZEO, because you have the closed Discover card at greater than 30% utilization. As long as that card is high utilization, it is a score drag, even though it is apart from your list of open accounts. AZEO, at heart, is a technique to get low utilization across all revolving accounts.

If you are providing credit advice, one of the challenges is that each person, especially those with dirty scorecards, is in a different set of circumstances. Adapting these suggestions to the many possibilities is challenging, which is why it has taken 5 pages of discussion to get your situation sorted out. I would caution against giving more than basic advice to others as they try to improve their credit scores. Directing them to sites such as this, specifically the educational materials MyFICO provides so they can learn on their own is relevant to them taking charge of their own credit. 

Congrats on the new NFCU card. That will help immensely on your quest to improve scores and improve rewards you earn.

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@credit8502020 wrote:

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.

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Ok. Duly noted. I thought of another question. Does AZEO count AU cards as well in the equation or just primary accounts?

Most of my clients are preparing for a mortgage loan so it may definitely be good for them. I'm going to suggest to them to switch to the AZEO method, instead of 2% on each card. There is a loan officer online who sticks to a method of having 2 credit cards report $20 on each cards to obtain higher scores. I haven't tested it, but I thought it to be an interesting suggesting. She uses it with her clients. 

. 

. 

---

The reason the loan officer suggests 2 cards with $20 each is because it lowers the risk of having all cards report zero, when the person tries to play games with All Zero Except One. That All Zero penalty is harsh.

The idea to have all cards report 2% balances is also a good one, again because it avoids problems when the cardholder tries to get too cute without really understanding all that is going on. Getting all cards to 2% reduces utilization, both on each card and in aggregate, which is the main point of AZEO. The AZEO final stages are only tweaking the last few points due to number of cards reporting, after utilization has been brought down.

In your own case, I doubt you will see significant improvement from AZEO, because you have the closed Discover card at greater than 30% utilization. As long as that card is high utilization, it is a score drag, even though it is apart from your list of open accounts. AZEO, at heart, is a technique to get low utilization across all revolving accounts.

If you are providing credit advice, one of the challenges is that each person, especially those with dirty scorecards, is in a different set of circumstances. Adapting these suggestions to the many possibilities is challenging, which is why it has taken 5 pages of discussion to get your situation sorted out. I would caution against giving more than basic advice to others as they try to improve their credit scores. Directing them to sites such as this, specifically the educational materials MyFICO provides so they can learn on their own is relevant to them taking charge of their own credit. 

Congrats on the new NFCU card. That will help immensely on your quest to improve scores and improve rewards you earn.

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+1 well said. 

@credit8502020 yes that's true, each profile is different, but the great thing is is AZEO puts every profile at the most optimal place it can be, whatever the profile, for the mortgage scores, absent remedial changes to the credit report.

In order to do better would require removal or payment of derogatories or in some small percentage of cases adding cards. (but you have to counterbalance the other changes it causes as we alluded to earlier, which can also cause temporary score drops. That's where it gets complicated and we can't give you one answer fits all.)

But as noted, everyone will not see an improvement going from two cards to one, especially those who have a lot of cards or may already be at their card maximum due to being in a dirty card. It lowers balances, utilization, percentage of revolvers with a balance and number of accounts with a balance and therefore gives the best possible score without adding cards or removing derogatory's which in some cases maybe necessary. 

[credit8502020]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@credit8502020 Yes good point she’s already on a new account scorecard. Wait a minute you said she had delinquencies, so she’s in a dirty card too, isn’t she?

Yeah go ahead and add her. She’s in a dirty card, so it would not have the same effect anyway, as you said earlier. What’s her average ages though? it will bring that down a little, but reduction utilization may very well outweigh that since it’s worth much more. Besides utilization and age are weighted less heavily on dirty cards.

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Yes. The only delinquencies she has are from me on the Discover account & Navient account.

1. Discover

Open Date - 1/2003

Lates - 3 in 2018 (1. 30D - 8/18, 2. 60D - 9/18, 3. 30D - 10/18)

2. Navient (Paid off in November)

Open Date - 11/2000

Lates - 5 Total - 60D, 90D, 4-120D (Feb-July 2014 - All 90s)

I'm not certain about her average ages. I'm going to look on her 3B report to get her average ages.

Quick questions:

1. Because the Navient account is almost 20 yrs old, will my score likely drop when it closes after my last payment in November?
2. Is this account supposed to be removed in 7 yrs or 10 yrs? 

On one hand, I want it gone because of the delinquencies, but on the other hand, it's one of my longest accounts so I'm just trying to determine which route is best. 

[Anonymous]

I don’t remember all your aging metrics off the top of my head but is that your oldest?

@ccquesthas made an awesome spreadsheet, plug your values into and get all your metrics just about and you can even make hypothetical changes to see what thresholds you may cross.

But I think you misunderstand how it works, just because the account is closed does not remove it or it’s effect on your aging metrics.

And as time passes, the delinquency will age off while the account typically will stay as long is up to 10 years from closing, sometimes longer, sometimes a shorter period. 

The only way the account ages off  simultaneously is if it was chargedoff or sent to any type of collections.

[credit8502020]

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@NRB525 wrote:

---

@credit8502020 wrote:

---

.

---

Ok. Duly noted. I thought of another question. Does AZEO count AU cards as well in the equation or just primary accounts?

Most of my clients are preparing for a mortgage loan so it may definitely be good for them. I'm going to suggest to them to switch to the AZEO method, instead of 2% on each card. There is a loan officer online who sticks to a method of having 2 credit cards report $20 on each cards to obtain higher scores. I haven't tested it, but I thought it to be an interesting suggesting. She uses it with her clients. 

. 

. 

---

The reason the loan officer suggests 2 cards with $20 each is because it lowers the risk of having all cards report zero, when the person tries to play games with All Zero Except One. That All Zero penalty is harsh.

The idea to have all cards report 2% balances is also a good one, again because it avoids problems when the cardholder tries to get too cute without really understanding all that is going on. Getting all cards to 2% reduces utilization, both on each card and in aggregate, which is the main point of AZEO. The AZEO final stages are only tweaking the last few points due to number of cards reporting, after utilization has been brought down.

In your own case, I doubt you will see significant improvement from AZEO, because you have the closed Discover card at greater than 30% utilization. As long as that card is high utilization, it is a score drag, even though it is apart from your list of open accounts. AZEO, at heart, is a technique to get low utilization across all revolving accounts.

If you are providing credit advice, one of the challenges is that each person, especially those with dirty scorecards, is in a different set of circumstances. Adapting these suggestions to the many possibilities is challenging, which is why it has taken 5 pages of discussion to get your situation sorted out. I would caution against giving more than basic advice to others as they try to improve their credit scores. Directing them to sites such as this, specifically the educational materials MyFICO provides so they can learn on their own is relevant to them taking charge of their own credit. 

Congrats on the new NFCU card. That will help immensely on your quest to improve scores and improve rewards you earn.

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@NRB525 Thank you for your feedback. I specifically wondered about the $20 because that specific number appears to be her sweet spot when using the simulator to determine the highest point gain. Unless the exact $20 is most optimum, I'd prefer clients have a lower amount because it keeps them from spending more money on each card that they need to especially if they have no real need to use the credit card for much. For many, the goal right before buying a home is not to spend unnecessary funds. Additionally much of this can be overwhelming for someone that is already having to focus on buying a home so having a set number like 2% is helpful to them. 

I guess I'll see the changes soon regarding AZEO since I've already begun to pay down balances to reflect it. It'll be interesting to see the difference it will make in my scores. 

I'm careful to provide specific information. However, there are some basic things that are pretty universal that has been helpful to my clients. Depending on what it is, I have clients consult with other credit consultants as I know there are several complexities involved with how credit works. I've mentioned my clients exact situations in the forum to get advice for them as well. I agree that providing them with resources to learn about credit is important and that is what is what I do. I'm also mindful of where I send them because there is a lot of misinformation about credit and it can be overwhelming especially when some credit repair companies are not even aware of certain rules. 

Thank you for the congrats! I look forward to it helping improve my overall credit profile.