Absolutely distraught. How could this happen?

[Revelate]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

That's your FICO punishment for being debt free. FICO absolutely hates people who are debt free. I lost 60 points when I paid off my mortgage and another 40 when I paid off my car two months later. Zero debt and $1500 more in disposable income and my score went down 100 points. Solution - you need debt, lots of it. Quick - go out and get 5 credit cards and 2 installment loans and FICO will love you again, but is it really worth it? That's what I did and now 2 out of 3 of my scores are over 800 and the other is 797.

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Your scores seem to have stayed above 800 for the better part of 2 years?  
When was the mortgage and car loan payoff that led to the score declines?

To what do you attribute your recent 800+ scores? Did you find another route to credit mix?

---

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

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It's just data.  Limited data = limited resolution, limited resolution = worse analysis, worse analysis = higher risk to the lender.  Hence, score drop.

I'm not saying FICO is perfect, but saying you have to be in debt to have a good FICO score is simply not true.  $5 on an open installment loan, $5 on one credit card out of call it 4 to your point, done.  You've been clearly around enough to know the game, play to win.  

Admittedly FICO 10T if it gains traction is hopefully going to obliterate all this nonsense anyway: increasing debt bad, decreasing debt good.  Simple.

[Anonymous]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

That's your FICO punishment for being debt free. FICO absolutely hates people who are debt free. I lost 60 points when I paid off my mortgage and another 40 when I paid off my car two months later. Zero debt and $1500 more in disposable income and my score went down 100 points. Solution - you need debt, lots of it. Quick - go out and get 5 credit cards and 2 installment loans and FICO will love you again, but is it really worth it? That's what I did and now 2 out of 3 of my scores are over 800 and the other is 797.

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Your scores seem to have stayed above 800 for the better part of 2 years?  
When was the mortgage and car loan payoff that led to the score declines?

To what do you attribute your recent 800+ scores? Did you find another route to credit mix?

---

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

---

It's just data.  Limited data = limited resolution, limited resolution = worse analysis, worse analysis = higher risk to the lender.  Hence, score drop.

I'm not saying FICO is perfect, but saying you have to be in debt to have a good FICO score is simply not true.  $5 on an open installment loan, $5 on one credit card out of call it 4 to your point, done.  You've been clearly around enough to know the game, play to win.  

Admittedly FICO 10T if it gains traction is hopefully going to obliterate all this nonsense anyway: increasing debt bad, decreasing debt good.  Simple.

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

That's your FICO punishment for being debt free. FICO absolutely hates people who are debt free. I lost 60 points when I paid off my mortgage and another 40 when I paid off my car two months later. Zero debt and $1500 more in disposable income and my score went down 100 points. Solution - you need debt, lots of it. Quick - go out and get 5 credit cards and 2 installment loans and FICO will love you again, but is it really worth it? That's what I did and now 2 out of 3 of my scores are over 800 and the other is 797.

---

Your scores seem to have stayed above 800 for the better part of 2 years?  
When was the mortgage and car loan payoff that led to the score declines?

To what do you attribute your recent 800+ scores? Did you find another route to credit mix?

---

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

---

It's just data.  Limited data = limited resolution, limited resolution = worse analysis, worse analysis = higher risk to the lender.  Hence, score drop.

I'm not saying FICO is perfect, but saying you have to be in debt to have a good FICO score is simply not true.  $5 on an open installment loan, $5 on one credit card out of call it 4 to your point, done.  You've been clearly around enough to know the game, play to win.  

Admittedly FICO 10T if it gains traction is hopefully going to obliterate all this nonsense anyway: increasing debt bad, decreasing debt good.  Simple.

---

If only that were true. Here is a screen shot of my score activity on MyFico for just the past week or so. Balances go up, scores go up or down, balances go down, scores go up or down. Predicting how FICO will treat any piece of information in a credit file is like trying to predict any single pull of a roulette wheel. Here is what I mean:

1/31 EXP Balance goes up $95, score goes up 15

1/30 TU Balance goes up $95 (probably the same $95 that EXP has on 1/31), score goes up 13

1/26 TU Balance goes down $130, score goes down 13

1/25 EQ Balance goes down $130 (probably the same $130 that TO has on 1/26), score goes down 13

FICO loves increases in debt, and hates decreases. This is just a snapshot of one week in my MyFico file, this has been consistent for the

three years I have been a member of MyFico

[Remedios]

All I'm seeing here is profound misunderstanding on your part when it comes to scoring and debt.

Perhaps instead of propagating a single sentence "FICO loves debt", you should read the responses. 

I have no debt. The only difference between paying with debit (I'm taking rewards out of the picture), is that money leaves my checking account 30 days later. 

I have a auto loan now. I dont have it because of scoring,  I have it because I see no value in dropping $25,000.00 from savings over interest that's really minuscule.

There is plenty of information on this board for you to read and further educate yourself. "FICO loves debt" is just something you're repeating now for whatever reason. 

Frankly,  if that's how you feel, you should totally abandon credit. That ought to show them! 

[Anonymous]

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@Remedios wrote:

All I'm seeing here is profound misunderstanding on your part when it comes to scoring and debt.

Perhaps instead of propagating a single sentence "FICO loves debt", you should read the responses. 

I have no debt. The only difference between paying with debit (I'm taking rewards out of the picture), is that money leaves my checking account 30 days later. 

I have a auto loan now. I dont have it because of scoring,  I have it because I see no value in dropping $25,000.00 from savings over interest that's really minuscule.

There is plenty of information on this board for you to read and further educate yourself. "FICO loves debt" is just something you're repeating now for whatever reason. 

Frankly,  if that's how you feel, you should totally abandon credit. That ought to show them! 

---

I know a lot more about credit and debt than you think. It's not what I think of debt that is the topic, but what FICO thinks of it. The "Party Line" is that FICO carefully analyzes one's credit file and comes up with a score that supposedly predicts the chances of a particular person's defaulting. The algorithm that FICO uses is a computer program written by people, and when people do something there is always a reason and a result. Say whatever you want about it, when analyzing what actions happen and what the results are, one can draw a conclusion that action "A" will cause result "B" because it consistently has in the past.  I have been carefully watching my scores go up and down, and over three years, I have seen the following to be consistent in FICO:

1: FICO hates reducing debt. As debt goes down, so do FICO scores. Close out a credit card or pay off a loan, and down go the scores. Two years ago I paid off a mortgage and a car loan within 60 days - no other activity in my credit file, and between them I lost 100 points. Simple facts, no opinions. Even FICO's own FAQ addresses this in a way - it says that FICO predicts the likelhood of a default. If you have no debt, you can't default, so the denominator of the percentage of default fraction is ZERO, which cannot compute.

2: FICO loves increasing debt (to a point). As debt goes up in small increments FICO scores go up with them.  It happens all the time in my MyFico alerts.

Those are the simple facts. I can play the credit scores game as well as anyone. When I joined MyFico my scores were in the high 500's. Now they are either above or near 800 depending on the bureau, the time of month, the direction of the tidal bore in the Bay of Fundy, the phase of the moon, th alignment of the stars and whatever else seems to affect a FICO score. Some of this is from what I learned here (such as AZEO and the Amex 300% CLI) while some is from what I already knew.

[OmarR]

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@Anonymous wrote:

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

You took out a 2nd mortgage just for a FICO score?!?

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[Anonymous]

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@OmarR wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

You took out a 2nd mortgage just for a FICO score?!?

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No, I took out a first mortgage to double the size of my house.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

That's your FICO punishment for being debt free. FICO absolutely hates people who are debt free. I lost 60 points when I paid off my mortgage and another 40 when I paid off my car two months later. Zero debt and $1500 more in disposable income and my score went down 100 points. Solution - you need debt, lots of it. Quick - go out and get 5 credit cards and 2 installment loans and FICO will love you again, but is it really worth it? That's what I did and now 2 out of 3 of my scores are over 800 and the other is 797.

---

Your scores seem to have stayed above 800 for the better part of 2 years?  
When was the mortgage and car loan payoff that led to the score declines?

To what do you attribute your recent 800+ scores? Did you find another route to credit mix?

---

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

---

It's just data.  Limited data = limited resolution, limited resolution = worse analysis, worse analysis = higher risk to the lender.  Hence, score drop.

I'm not saying FICO is perfect, but saying you have to be in debt to have a good FICO score is simply not true.  $5 on an open installment loan, $5 on one credit card out of call it 4 to your point, done.  You've been clearly around enough to know the game, play to win.  

Admittedly FICO 10T if it gains traction is hopefully going to obliterate all this nonsense anyway: increasing debt bad, decreasing debt good.  Simple.

---

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@Revelate wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@NRB525 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

That's your FICO punishment for being debt free. FICO absolutely hates people who are debt free. I lost 60 points when I paid off my mortgage and another 40 when I paid off my car two months later. Zero debt and $1500 more in disposable income and my score went down 100 points. Solution - you need debt, lots of it. Quick - go out and get 5 credit cards and 2 installment loans and FICO will love you again, but is it really worth it? That's what I did and now 2 out of 3 of my scores are over 800 and the other is 797.

---

Your scores seem to have stayed above 800 for the better part of 2 years?  
When was the mortgage and car loan payoff that led to the score declines?

To what do you attribute your recent 800+ scores? Did you find another route to credit mix?

---

The mortgage and car were paid off in 2017. Seeing how much FICO hates debt free people, I went back into debt - I took out another mortgage (which jumped my score but, unfortunately, will be paid off in another couple of months) and opened 5 credit cards which I pay off every weekend.

---

It's just data.  Limited data = limited resolution, limited resolution = worse analysis, worse analysis = higher risk to the lender.  Hence, score drop.

I'm not saying FICO is perfect, but saying you have to be in debt to have a good FICO score is simply not true.  $5 on an open installment loan, $5 on one credit card out of call it 4 to your point, done.  You've been clearly around enough to know the game, play to win.  

Admittedly FICO 10T if it gains traction is hopefully going to obliterate all this nonsense anyway: increasing debt bad, decreasing debt good.  Simple.

---

If only that were true. Here is a screen shot of my score activity on MyFico for just the past week or so. Balances go up, scores go up or down, balances go down, scores go up or down. Predicting how FICO will treat any piece of information in a credit file is like trying to predict any single pull of a roulette wheel. Here is what I mean:

1/31 EXP Balance goes up $95, score goes up 15

1/30 TU Balance goes up $95 (probably the same $95 that EXP has on 1/31), score goes up 13

1/26 TU Balance goes down $130, score goes down 13

1/25 EQ Balance goes down $130 (probably the same $130 that TO has on 1/26), score goes down 13

FICO loves increases in debt, and hates decreases. This is just a snapshot of one week in my MyFico file, this has been consistent for the

three years I have been a member of MyFico

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Your post seems to be based on the incorrect belief that there is a cause and effect relationship between the substance of the alert and the score change appended to it. MyFICO alerts simply do not operate that way.

MyFICO alerts don't provide reasons for a score change. There are certain events which trigger MyFICO alerts. If there happens to be any difference between your present score at that particular bureau and the previous score reported to you from that bureau, the score change is tacked on to the alert. There is not necessarily any connection at all between the score change and the alert substance.

"MyFICO explains this in the "learn more" link contained in the alert:

Why did my score go up when I got an alert for something negative (or why did my score go down when I got an alert for something positive)?
The short answer: Your FICO (TM) Score may change because of other events not monitored by an alert.
Whenever we send you a credit alert, we also send an updated FICO Score. To ensure you get the most current score, we calculate it based on your entire credit report at that point in time - not just the new information on the alert. This means your new score may reflect other changes that are outside of the things we watch for (see everything we monitor).
Sometimes you may see your score increase when you think it should've decreased, and vice-versa, but you'll always have your most up-to-date and accurate score."

[Anonymous]

While I do carry a few Card balances, debt. It's not required for good credit. Evey time my CC have no balances, my score rises. Everytime they increase, it lowers. Fico requires usage something we all do with CC's. Not a large debt load. If people want to use that as an excuse to justify taking out loans etc. that's on them.

All a person has to do is let those CC balances post, then PIF. Maintain score. There are already DP's on how to satisfy the credit mix with an SSL, which can be rather small. 

[Trudy]

Yeah, alerts tends to throw people off as SouthJamaica notes. Looking at the data your provided from alerts it seems clear your score decrease due to all revolvers reporting $0, which we know is a penalty.  You got those exact points back when another account reported a relatively small balance of $95, satisfying the algorithm.  Reporting $5 would have likely done the same. 

Since I know the alerts do not provide the reason for a score change, when it happens with TransUnion I can usually pin point what action caused the change based on the order of scoring factors provided when there is a score change.  If you open the score change alerts you may find reordering.  I would guess 1/26 the 1st or near the top would list “no recent revolving balances".  And on 1/30 when you got those points back I would guess it disappeared. I just reviewed the one time in 2018 I reported $0 and reviewed my score factors. On 8/31 at the time I had a late still on my report but as seen with my data (below yours) that is exactly what happened, penalized for reporting $0. Small balance reported on 9/5 and score returned to where it was.

I didn’t get additional points for reporting a balance I just gained those exact points I lost for reporting $0.

[Anonymous]

I have to laugh at the comment "No recent account balances" - I laugh because FICO can remember a bankruptcy for ten years and a 60 day late for 7 years but can't remember a balance on a credit card from last week. We are talking WEEKLY changes in credit card blances.