It's the UT. If you get a cc with a 50k limit and had a total of 50k beforehand with a 10k balance. This would raise your total cl to 100k. So that 10k balance would be down to 10% and thus raise your score or just keep it the same since you did open a new account and had another inq. That's how mine works. It will eventually goes back up after about a week or two. But it cannot discriminate on anything. No income, no higher cl, nothing. 
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:I presently have13 revolving cards.
My Experian FICO 8 simulator said I would increase my score by 5 points by applying for and getting another credit card.
What?
You can get to Fico 850 with 5 credit cards - if the cards have a combined CL that allows you to maintain aggregate utilization under 10%.
However, credit mix does come into play so lack of an installment/mortgage loan would be a limiting factor. Also, although a closed installment/mortgage loan will count toward mix, not having an open/active loan may also be a limiting factor. Quite a few people have reported some score drop when installment loans are paid off and closed.
I don't believe that closed installment or mortgage loans do count for credit mix. If this were true it should hold true for credit cards and closed credit cards are not counted and your scores tank. I have old mortgage loans reporting and old auto loans, all paid off, and I am not getting the benefit of cedit mix. I do have major bank cards, a couple store cards and a credit builder installment loan, though.
Installment or mortgage loans do not still need to be open to influence your score- they just need to show up on your report. Also, to get the highest possible scores, you need both revolving debt and installment debt - but the latter do not need to be open.
FICO 04 I agree with you regarding the installment or mortgage loans.
FICO 8 appears to have changed that; a horde of members have reported score drops on FICO 8 when they paid off their last installment loan; FICO 8 appears to heavily want open loans, and at a pretty utilization level to boot. FICO 04 also utterly discounts installment tradeline utilization.
I don't really know how mix of credit plays into the FICO 8 model as a result, if you don't have open credit cards you get absolutely hammered as well. Closed accounts may factor into mix of credit just like they did previously, but not having open accounts may be a new part of the calculation.
I'm hoping SJ since he got the 12 month term on the installlment loan, will be willing to test in a year when his loan closes, and then presumably he reopens it, it reports, and then pretties it up, how his scores react which might isolate mix of credit from open installment line from installment utilization. Unfortunately I can't do that with my impending mortgage report unless it's counted outside of this and I sadly am thinking it is not. Expecting a non-trivial drop, meh. Good thing I don't have anything else credit wise I want for years heh.
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:I presently have13 revolving cards.
My Experian FICO 8 simulator said I would increase my score by 5 points by applying for and getting another credit card.
What?
You can get to Fico 850 with 5 credit cards - if the cards have a combined CL that allows you to maintain aggregate utilization under 10%.
However, credit mix does come into play so lack of an installment/mortgage loan would be a limiting factor. Also, although a closed installment/mortgage loan will count toward mix, not having an open/active loan may also be a limiting factor. Quite a few people have reported some score drop when installment loans are paid off and closed.
I don't believe that closed installment or mortgage loans do count for credit mix. If this were true it should hold true for credit cards and closed credit cards are not counted and your scores tank. I have old mortgage loans reporting and old auto loans, all paid off, and I am not getting the benefit of cedit mix. I do have major bank cards, a couple store cards and a credit builder installment loan, though.
Installment or mortgage loans do not still need to be open to influence your score- they just need to show up on your report. Also, to get the highest possible scores, you need both revolving debt and installment debt - but the latter do not need to be open.
FICO 04 I agree with you regarding the installment or mortgage loans.
FICO 8 appears to have changed that; a horde of members have reported score drops on FICO 8 when they paid off their last installment loan; FICO 8 appears to heavily want open loans, and at a pretty utilization level to boot. FICO 04 also utterly discounts installment tradeline utilization.
I don't really know how mix of credit plays into the FICO 8 model as a result, if you don't have open credit cards you get absolutely hammered as well. Closed accounts may factor into mix of credit just like they did previously, but not having open accounts may be a new part of the calculation.
I'm hoping SJ since he got the 12 month term on the installlment loan, will be willing to test in a year when his loan closes, and then presumably he reopens it, it reports, and then pretties it up, how his scores react which might isolate mix of credit from open installment line from installment utilization. Unfortunately I can't do that with my impending mortgage report unless it's counted outside of this and I sadly am thinking it is not. Expecting a non-trivial drop, meh. Good thing I don't have anything else credit wise I want for years heh.
Revelate,
I really want to understand this, but I am not clear what your answer says. It seems to say that closed installment and mortgage loans satisfy the credit mix requirements, but then it seems you go on to say that my thought was correct in FICO 04 and then you seem to say that FICO 08 wants to see them open. Can you please clarify? I want to get this down. If the closed loans count, I really do not understand people getting the sometimes 20 point hit for paying off their auto loan??
That and a bunch of other stuff is buried in there. FICO 8 absolutely counts on open tradelines more than FICO 04 did; when MF switched EQ from Beacon 5 to 9, we had a slew of people screaming that they got slammed, and it turned out they had zero credit cards open, just solid installment history. We're talking 50+ point drops between models.
Fundamentally FICO 04 and 8 simply behave differently in this manner. Open tradelines matter in FICO 8, installment utilization matters in FICO 8: two substantial departures from FICO 04... incidently FICO 98 counts installment utilization too so not sure why they backtracked on it in their predictive analysis.
Mix of credit, I'm hoping that SJ gets a clean datapoint with his new installment tradeline when it first reports... never really had anyone interested in testing and tracking their FICO 8 scores closely that popped their installment cherry.
@Revelate wrote:
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:I presently have13 revolving cards.
My Experian FICO 8 simulator said I would increase my score by 5 points by applying for and getting another credit card.
What?
You can get to Fico 850 with 5 credit cards - if the cards have a combined CL that allows you to maintain aggregate utilization under 10%.
However, credit mix does come into play so lack of an installment/mortgage loan would be a limiting factor. Also, although a closed installment/mortgage loan will count toward mix, not having an open/active loan may also be a limiting factor. Quite a few people have reported some score drop when installment loans are paid off and closed.
I don't believe that closed installment or mortgage loans do count for credit mix. If this were true it should hold true for credit cards and closed credit cards are not counted and your scores tank. I have old mortgage loans reporting and old auto loans, all paid off, and I am not getting the benefit of cedit mix. I do have major bank cards, a couple store cards and a credit builder installment loan, though.
Installment or mortgage loans do not still need to be open to influence your score- they just need to show up on your report. Also, to get the highest possible scores, you need both revolving debt and installment debt - but the latter do not need to be open.
FICO 04 I agree with you regarding the installment or mortgage loans.
FICO 8 appears to have changed that; a horde of members have reported score drops on FICO 8 when they paid off their last installment loan; FICO 8 appears to heavily want open loans, and at a pretty utilization level to boot. FICO 04 also utterly discounts installment tradeline utilization.
I don't really know how mix of credit plays into the FICO 8 model as a result, if you don't have open credit cards you get absolutely hammered as well. Closed accounts may factor into mix of credit just like they did previously, but not having open accounts may be a new part of the calculation.
I'm hoping SJ since he got the 12 month term on the installlment loan, will be willing to test in a year when his loan closes, and then presumably he reopens it, it reports, and then pretties it up, how his scores react which might isolate mix of credit from open installment line from installment utilization. Unfortunately I can't do that with my impending mortgage report unless it's counted outside of this and I sadly am thinking it is not. Expecting a non-trivial drop, meh. Good thing I don't have anything else credit wise I want for years heh.
Revelate,
I really want to understand this, but I am not clear what your answer says. It seems to say that closed installment and mortgage loans satisfy the credit mix requirements, but then it seems you go on to say that my thought was correct in FICO 04 and then you seem to say that FICO 08 wants to see them open. Can you please clarify? I want to get this down. If the closed loans count, I really do not understand people getting the sometimes 20 point hit for paying off their auto loan??
That and a bunch of other stuff is buried in there. FICO 8 absolutely counts on open tradelines more than FICO 04 did; when MF switched EQ from Beacon 5 to 9, we had a slew of people screaming that they got slammed, and it turned out they had zero credit cards open, just solid installment history. We're talking 50+ point drops between models.
Fundamentally FICO 04 and 8 simply behave differently in this manner. Open tradelines matter in FICO 8, installment utilization matters in FICO 8: two substantial departures from FICO 04... incidently FICO 98 counts installment utilization too so not sure why they backtracked on it in their predictive analysis.
Mix of credit, I'm hoping that SJ gets a clean datapoint with his new installment tradeline when it first reports... never really had anyone interested in testing and tracking their FICO 8 scores closely that popped their installment cherry.
I'm not popping any cherries.
But I did have 13 revolving cards, and zero instalment loans, reporting on all 3 credit reports, when I started the experiment of opening a small instalment loan, in the form of a "Savings Secured" loan with Alliant.
