Age of newest account -- how big a hit?

[Anonymous]

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@AnonymousMy guess is that you are already taking the maximum hit.  I can imagine the maximum penalty lightening a bit after Day 90, and still more after 6 months, and then perhaps entirely at 1 year.

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CGID, have you seen any data points about a 90 day or 180 day (or any time frame inside of 1 year) threshold with respect to AoYA?  If so, do you think it could be scorecard/profile specific?

The reason I ask is that when I saw my AoYA hit 1 year, I saw gains of 16/15/16 points on my FICO 08 scores.  I'm not sure I've heard of anyone losing more points than that in going from a AoYA of > 1 year to 0 months, assuming they aren't factoring inquiries into the drop.  I don't recall ever losing more points than that from an AoYA drop to 0, although I don't have data spanning back more than a bit over 2 years.

I feel like if there is any scoring gain along the way from 0 months to 12 months that it's got to be pretty minor.  Your thoughts? 

[Thomas_Thumb]

SJ,

I believe there is a lessening of impact for youngest account once it exceeds 90 days age. Hard to say how much as that likely varies by scorecard. I'd let the loan close, note the impact on ALL Fico versions, report results and then decide from there. I'm curious how Fico 9 reacts compared to Fico 8 in addition to the older Ficos. You really don't need a loan to prop up your score.

My estimate is once your loan is paid off (a couple months from now?) you may lose 30 points on Fico 8 but not much on the Fico mortgage models. Ultimately I believe your Classic Fico 8 and Classic Fico 9 scores could all be over 800 within a year even without an open loan - assuming no new accounts and low utilization.

Now the bad news: Your score is undoubetedly being penalized for too many open accounts. That could be costing you 20 points (just a guess). I speculate optimal the sweet spot for # open accoints might be 11 to 20. You may need to close a dozen or so accounts selectively to get above 800 on Fico 8 in 12 months without an open installment loan on file. Again, just a guess as I have no direct experience with a high number of open accounts.

[Anonymous]

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@Thomas_Thumb

Now the bad news: Your score is undoubetedly being penalized for too many open accounts. That could be costing you 20 points (just a guess). I speculate optimal the sweet spot for # open accoints might be 11 to 20. You may need to close a dozen or so accounts selectively to get above 800 on Fico 8 in 12 months without an open installment loan on file. Again, just a guess as I have no direct experience with a high number of open accounts.

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TT, what is the negative reason code associated with too many open accounts?  I've heard of too many accounts with balances, but not sheer number of accounts.  I never realized that actual number could hurt score.  In theory, someone with 30 accounts could have a lesser score than someone with 15 accounts even if both of them had say 1-2 accounts with balances?

[Thomas_Thumb]

Reason code "04" or D/04" - "Too many bank or national revolving accounts". The below table was developed based on Mortgage Ficos but, is generally a good representation for newer Fico models as well.

The OP in a very recent thread received for Fico 8 the following: Too many or too few accounts". Given he mentioned having 30+ accounts, the too many likely applies. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Fico-4-Too-Many-or-Too-Few-Accounts/m-p/...

 My buffer has weakened when I dropping below 11 accounts so, my thought is 11 to 20 might be the sweet spot. This belief is bolstered by my VG rating by MYFICO for credit mix and CKs brackets for # accounts. There often is a kernal of insight provided by 3rd party presentations. However, the truth gets stretched when CK suggests the sky is the limit with the 20+. There is a point with Fico where increased count becomes a risk factor

Below are re-pastes of codes I presented in a few threads over the last couple years.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

SJ,

I believe there is a lessening of impact for youngest account once it exceeds 90 days age. Hard to say how much as that likely varies by scorecard. I'd let the loan close, note the impact on ALL Fico versions,

Yes I'm definitely going to try that. Going to try to keep things otherwise as stable as possible and time my full FICO reports so that I can see the whole array both before and after I am shut out of the "reindeer games".

report results and then decide from there. I'm curious how Fico 9 reacts compared to Fico 8

I'm predicting FICO 9 will behave similarly

in addition to the older Ficos.

I'm predicting TU FICO 4 will take a hit, EX FICO 2 will shrug it off

You really don't need a loan to prop up your score.

It appears that I do, actually

My estimate is once your loan is paid off (a couple months from now?) you may lose 30 points on Fico 8

That's not pretty if I want to apply for something other than a mortgage

but not much on the Fico mortgage models.

Agreed

Ultimately I believe your Classic Fico 8 and Classic Fico 9 scores could all be over 800 within a year even without an open loan - assuming no new accounts and low utilization.

If life treats me swimmingly, which it usually doesn't

Now the bad news: Your score is undoubetedly being penalized for too many open accounts. That could be costing you 20 points (just a guess).

Which score(s) would be penalizing me for too many open accounts? I've never actually heard of that.

I speculate optimal the sweet spot for # open accoints might be 11 to 20.

This is the first I've ever heard of that.

You may need to close a dozen or so accounts selectively to get above 800 on Fico 8 in 12 months without an open installment loan on file. Again, just a guess as I have no direct experience with a high number of open accounts.

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[Thomas_Thumb]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

SJ,

I believe there is a lessening of impact for youngest account once it exceeds 90 days age. Hard to say how much as that likely varies by scorecard. I'd let the loan close, note the impact on ALL Fico versions,

Yes I'm definitely going to try that. Going to try to keep things otherwise as stable as possible and time my full FICO reports so that I can see the whole array both before and after I am shut out of the "reindeer games".

report results and then decide from there. I'm curious how Fico 9 reacts compared to Fico 8

I'm predicting FICO 9 will behave similarly

in addition to the older Ficos.

I'm predicting TU FICO 4 will take a hit, EX FICO 2 will shrug it off

You really don't need a loan to prop up your score.

It appears that I do, actually - Have faith and patience. Ubuntu reported a Fico 8, 850 with no open loans

My estimate is once your loan is paid off (a couple months from now?) you may lose 30 points on Fico 8

That's not pretty if I want to apply for something other than a mortgage

but not much on the Fico mortgage models.

Agreed

Now the bad news: Your score is undoubetedly being penalized for too many open accounts. That could be costing you 20 points (just a guess).

Which score(s) would be penalizing me for too many open accounts? I've never actually heard of that.

- I suspect all your Fico scores to some degree but penalty as follows: F9<F8<F04=F98

I speculate optimal the sweet spot for # open accoints might be 11 to 20.

This is the first I've ever heard of that. [I used one of CKs ranges that I think fits as good as any with my observations]

You may need to close a dozen or so accounts selectively to get above 800 on Fico 8 in 12 months without an open installment loan on file. Again, just a guess as I have no direct experience with a high number of open accounts.

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[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

SJ,

I believe there is a lessening of impact for youngest account once it exceeds 90 days age. Hard to say how much as that likely varies by scorecard. I'd let the loan close, note the impact on ALL Fico versions,

Yes I'm definitely going to try that. Going to try to keep things otherwise as stable as possible and time my full FICO reports so that I can see the whole array both before and after I am shut out of the "reindeer games".

report results and then decide from there. I'm curious how Fico 9 reacts compared to Fico 8

I'm predicting FICO 9 will behave similarly

in addition to the older Ficos.

I'm predicting TU FICO 4 will take a hit, EX FICO 2 will shrug it off

You really don't need a loan to prop up your score.

It appears that I do, actually - Have faith and patience. Ubuntu reported a Fico 8, 850 with no open loans

My estimate is once your loan is paid off (a couple months from now?) you may lose 30 points on Fico 8

That's not pretty if I want to apply for something other than a mortgage

but not much on the Fico mortgage models.

Agreed

Now the bad news: Your score is undoubetedly being penalized for too many open accounts. That could be costing you 20 points (just a guess).

Which score(s) would be penalizing me for too many open accounts? I've never actually heard of that.

- I suspect all your Fico scores to some degree but penalty as follows: F9<F8<F04=F98

I speculate optimal the sweet spot for # open accoints might be 11 to 20.

This is the first I've ever heard of that. [I used one of CKs ranges that I think fits as good as any with my observations]

You may need to close a dozen or so accounts selectively to get above 800 on Fico 8 in 12 months without an open installment loan on file. Again, just a guess as I have no direct experience with a high number of open accounts.

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Well if I ever get a code like that, I'll start pruning.

[Thomas_Thumb]

Interestingly, your TU Fico 8 score is highest.

The only CRA that does not list a negative reason code/statement (refering to above pastes) for too many revolving accounts is TU

The bigger tell might be comparing Mortgage Ficos.

[Anonymous]

TT, you stated above that your buffer weakened when dropping below 11 open accounts or so.  Can you quantify that at all?  Are we just talking a couple of points here, or is it something more significant in your opinion?

I've never seen a too many or too few accounts negative reason code, but have had reason codes that were only impacting my score 4-5 points.  If reason codes are provided in order of importance, I would then conclude that too many or too few accounts would be "worth" less than 4-5 points if I've never seen it.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Interestingly, your TU Fico 8 score is highest.

The only CRA that does not list a negative reason code/statement (refering to above pastes) for too many revolving accounts is TU

The bigger tell might be comparing Mortgage Ficos.

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Since I've been watching my scores, TU FICO 8 has invariably been ~ 20 points higher than the other two, all other things being equal.

Last night I checked my negative reason codes in MyFICO on a bunch of scores, including the mortgage scores, and that negative reason code did not appear anywhere. But that could just be because there are more important negative reason codes rising to the top. Perhaps when the more important ones fall to the wayside, reason code "04" or D/04", of which I've never heard before, will rear its head.