Am I hurting my FICO, paying before SD, 0% Utilization Reported?

[leeuniverse]

So, I'm using all my cards every month, but I pay them in full before the Statement Date so when they report to the Credit Bureaus I show ZERO% Utilization.
However, I'm sure they can see I'm still "using" my cards, likely some "backend" thing, I know they show us our "Highest usage" for the card.

But, if "officially" I'm not ever showing any Utilization "at all", am I actually "Hurting" the Growth of my FICO score?

Tracking my scores and activities for the last few years, I've noticed generally the lower utilization the better your score, like between 1-5% (but I think this depends on your Credit Limits, think I've noticed that as mine has gotten higher).  For example, I've noticed that if I show 1% I have a worse score, but if I showed 3%, I had a better score.  So, this crap is confusing and I can't entire predict what's happening.

As one example, TransUnion massively shafted me a few months ago, even though there was ZERO changes recently other than the last few changes paying down accounts, but it had been like two weeks since the last report, out of the blue, no changes at all, they just Lowered my Score by 24 POINTS....!!!  I was like wth!  No recent changes before and after, and all pro and negative changes already had increases or reductions, so there shouldn't have been anything they just "forgot" to hurt my account.  Anyway, never seen that.

But I think I'm seeing with "zero" utilization it's actually "hurting" my score?  I'm not sure?

Help....  Thanks

[JoeRockhead]

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@leeuniverse wrote:

So, I'm using all my cards every month, but I pay them in full before the Statement Date so when they report to the Credit Bureaus I show ZERO% Utilization.
However, I'm sure they can see I'm still "using" my cards, likely some "backend" thing, I know they show us our "Highest usage" for the card.

But, if "officially" I'm not ever showing any Utilization "at all", am I actually "Hurting" the Growth of my FICO score?

Tracking my scores and activities for the last few years, I've noticed generally the lower utilization the better your score, like between 1-5% (but I think this depends on your Credit Limits, think I've noticed that as mine has gotten higher).  For example, I've noticed that if I show 1% I have a worse score, but if I showed 3%, I had a better score.  So, this crap is confusing and I can't entire predict what's happening.

As one example, TransUnion massively shafted me a few months ago, even though there was ZERO changes recently other than the last few changes paying down accounts, but it had been like two weeks since the last report, out of the blue, no changes at all, they just Lowered my Score by 24 POINTS....!!!  I was like wth!  No recent changes before and after, and all pro and negative changes already had increases or reductions, so there shouldn't have been anything they just "forgot" to hurt my account.  Anyway, never seen that.

But I think I'm seeing with "zero" utilization it's actually "hurting" my score?  I'm not sure?

Help....  Thanks

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Lenders you already have that do periodic SPs on your credit to "check" on you may, or may not see your highest usage. Not all lenders report this information. The algorithms don't see this information, they formulate a score based on reported balances and utilization. Consistently having zero reported usage can also equate to looking as though you're not using your credit at all, or that your accounts have gone dormant. This can suppress your scores. What length of time constitutes an account being deemed dormant is debatable. It could be 3 months, 6 months, etc...

I along with at least some others believe there is also a slight score penalty once any of these otherwise "dormant" accounts posts a balance, but utilization points lost because of this will be regained. It's best if you let one of your accounts report a monthly balance under 9%. Otherwise there is an all zero score penalty

As for TU shafting you, again, the CRAs scoring is done by computer based on the information that's reported by the lenders such as payment history, utilization, as well as ageing metrics and so on. No-one is sitting there tweaking people's scores just for fun, or otherwise. Based on this post, and your other two recent posts, you appear to be checking Credit Karma/Vantage 3 scores and you make reference to having cards of varying ages. You shouldn't rely on Vantage 3.0 scores as they are virtually meaningless when it comes to mainstream lenders using them for determining your credit worthiness. The majority of lenders are still using Fico scoring models for assessing credit.   

[FicoMike0]

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@leeuniverse wrote:

So, I'm using all my cards every month, but I pay them in full before the Statement Date so when they report to the Credit Bureaus I show ZERO% Utilization.

You should be seeing the zero penalty.
However, I'm sure they can see I'm still "using" my cards, likely some "backend" thing, I know they show us our "Highest usage" for the card.

But, if "officially" I'm not ever showing any Utilization "at all", am I actually "Hurting" the Growth of my FICO score?

You're only hurting your present score, not it's growth. Utilization has no memory (at least for fico8/9).

Tracking my scores and activities for the last few years, I've noticed generally the lower utilization the better your score, like between 1-5% (but I think this depends on your Credit Limits, think I've noticed that as mine has gotten higher).  For example, I've noticed that if I show 1% I have a worse score, but if I showed 3%, I had a better score.  So, this crap is confusing and I can't entire predict what's happening.

As one example, TransUnion massively shafted me a few months ago, even though there was ZERO changes recently other than the last few changes paying down accounts, but it had been like two weeks since the last report, out of the blue, no changes at all, they just Lowered my Score by 24 POINTS....!!!  I was like wth!  No recent changes before and after, and all pro and negative changes already had increases or reductions, so there shouldn't have been anything they just "forgot" to hurt my account.  Anyway, never seen that.

Your reports change all the time. If nothing else, time passes. An example, I got a cli from amex, $9000 to $27000. That didn't show up on my reports for two weeks, when that account posted. That change didn't show up on wells credit close-up for another week, when my wells account posted (sp by wells).

But I think I'm seeing with "zero" utilization it's actually "hurting" my score?  I'm not sure?

Anytime one of your reports shows zero utilization, a fico score, calculated on that report at that instant, will show zero penalty. Part of the confusion is predicting when these data show up and where.

Help....  Thanks

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[SouthJamaica]

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@leeuniverse wrote:

So, I'm using all my cards every month, but I pay them in full before the Statement Date so when they report to the Credit Bureaus I show ZERO% Utilization.
However, I'm sure they can see I'm still "using" my cards, likely some "backend" thing, I know they show us our "Highest usage" for the card.

But, if "officially" I'm not ever showing any Utilization "at all", am I actually "Hurting" the Growth of my FICO score?

Tracking my scores and activities for the last few years, I've noticed generally the lower utilization the better your score, like between 1-5% (but I think this depends on your Credit Limits, think I've noticed that as mine has gotten higher).  For example, I've noticed that if I show 1% I have a worse score, but if I showed 3%, I had a better score.  So, this crap is confusing and I can't entire predict what's happening.

As one example, TransUnion massively shafted me a few months ago, even though there was ZERO changes recently other than the last few changes paying down accounts, but it had been like two weeks since the last report, out of the blue, no changes at all, they just Lowered my Score by 24 POINTS....!!!  I was like wth!  No recent changes before and after, and all pro and negative changes already had increases or reductions, so there shouldn't have been anything they just "forgot" to hurt my account.  Anyway, never seen that.

But I think I'm seeing with "zero" utilization it's actually "hurting" my score?  I'm not sure?

Help....  Thanks

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Your 24 points was probably the result of the "all zero penalty".

It is better for your scores to have the lowest possible aggregate revolving "utilization", and to have more zero balances than not, except that at least one card should report a non-zero balance before you pay it off. It can be as little as $10 or $20. (Utilization defined as reported balances, not actual utilization. You are correct that they can detect your activity even when the reported balance is zero).

[leeuniverse]

Thanks all...

So, I've actually been paying on a Car, have an Installment Loan, and AM in fact paying on One Card.
It was at 6% Utilization at the time that 24 Points hit.

As I mention here or the post they deleted, I've been gradually paying on these things, and did have some recent changes etc., but all those things had already hit the credit at least a couple of weeks before, and I of course see paying down the items causes the scores to go up.
There have been no other changes in my life... so that drop was out of the blue.

Also, it happened to my FICO as well.  Don't remember the exact amount since I don't see it every day like I do with Credit Karma.
So, anyway, the 24 point drop was just out of the blue, and it couldn't have been the "Zero Utilization Penalty" since I did have a card with a balance on it.  It was also ONLY TransUnion which it happened to.  The other CB's only reported changes when there were changes, and certainly not anything THAT big of a drop.

The Zero Utilization question was just another question I had.... was reading some things and have been watching my score so it popped in my head.
Of course, I AM using my cards, so I know about the "not using cards" issues which can hurt your score.  I was just wondering if they detect that as well if they hurt you when showing Zero Utilization, which per above they apparently do?  Which, I don't get especially if they SEE you're using your cards?

Is is simply a matter of the Scoring Algo used by the CB's NOT calculating that, they ONLY calculate it on the Utilization shown?

So, anyone see this, have any other idea?

Thanks much.

[FicoMike0]

Let me just sum up. Utilization is computed on the account reported balance and credit limit. Most banks report an account once a month, the day it posts. Really makes no difference how many charges or payments you made, it's a snapshot on that date. If your limit is $1000 and you balance is $500, that's 50%. If you pay the bill in full the very next day, it's still 50% until next month. If all accounts post zero, you get the all zero penalty. Makes no difference how much you charged, if you pay to zero before posting, it's zero.

The exceptions to the reporting rule are, anytime you pay a Chase account to zero, they report the zero balance and us b reports on the last day of the month, regardless of posting date.

[SouthJamaica]

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@leeuniverse wrote:

Thanks all...

So, I've actually been paying on a Car, have an Installment Loan, and AM in fact paying on One Card.
It was at 6% Utilization at the time that 24 Points hit.

As I mention here or the post they deleted, I've been gradually paying on these things, and did have some recent changes etc., but all those things had already hit the credit at least a couple of weeks before, and I of course see paying down the items causes the scores to go up.
There have been no other changes in my life... so that drop was out of the blue.

Also, it happened to my FICO as well.  Don't remember the exact amount since I don't see it every day like I do with Credit Karma.
So, anyway, the 24 point drop was just out of the blue, and it couldn't have been the "Zero Utilization Penalty" since I did have a card with a balance on it.  It was also ONLY TransUnion which it happened to.  The other CB's only reported changes when there were changes, and certainly not anything THAT big of a drop.

The Zero Utilization question was just another question I had.... was reading some things and have been watching my score so it popped in my head.
Of course, I AM using my cards, so I know about the "not using cards" issues which can hurt your score.  I was just wondering if they detect that as well if they hurt you when showing Zero Utilization, which per above they apparently do?  Which, I don't get especially if they SEE you're using your cards?

Is is simply a matter of the Scoring Algo used by the CB's NOT calculating that, they ONLY calculate it on the Utilization shown?

So, anyone see this, have any other idea?

Thanks much.

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All bets are off if you're talking about your TransUnion Vantage 3.0 scores with Credit Karma.

I was talking about FICO scores.

Vantage scores are volatile and unpredictable.