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Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

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AlgorithmIsWrong
New Member

Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

Like seriously, you get one late payment and you get hit with a 20+ point decrease.  While making consistent, on-time monthly payments and your score increases slower than molasses .  A car note gets paid off, there goes your score down the drain.  There's something definitely wrong with the whole model and I wonder if anyone within the three credit bureaus and myFICO know how to reimagine the system.  

52 REPLIES 52
FlaDude
Valued Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

FWIW, FICO is definately being tweaked. While FICO 8 scores (and even older models) are still commonly used, FICO 9 exists and 10 is there too.

 

Since FICO is meant to be a predictor of creditworthiness, I think it is expected that not making a payment on time should have a negative score impact. As far as the credit mix issue (paying off your car loan), that may be more debatable, but if they have statistics that show that people with no active installment loans are more likely to default, then that should be factored into the scoring.

 

If you haven't ready any of this thread, you might want to look at some of it:

We-re-Tom-Quinn-amp-Tommy-Lee-FICO-Score-Experts-Ask-us-anything 

Scores: March 21 FICO 8: EX 810, TU 808, EQ 813
AoOA: closed: 36 years, open: 25 years; AAoA: 11.8 years
Amex Gold, Amex Green, Amex Blue, Amex ED, Amex Delta Gold, Amex Hilton Surpass, BoA Platinum Plus, Chase Freedom Unlimited, Chase Amazon, Chase CSP, Chase United Explorer, Citi AA Plat, Sync Lowes, Sync JC Penney - total CL 145k
Loans: Chase car loan (35k/6yrs 0.9%)
Message 2 of 53
AlgorithmIsWrong
New Member

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

Prediction is pretty much an opinion in my eyes and peoples credit worthiness should not be  judged based on an opinion.  If one late payment hurts you by 20+ points when all your prior payments were on time, one would take into account all the positive history and slightly ding the person for a late payment. Key word there is "slightly."   Now, if the late payments continue, then sure, I could understand the huge decline.  This is why the system is flawed.  

 

Perhaps, delayed reporting from agencies to the bureaus is warranted.  Where a 3 to 6 month period is scored rather than individual months.

Message 3 of 53
CYBERSAM
Senior Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

To pay your bills on time is not a favor to credit word, its an obligation. They don't see that behavior as amazing, only not as negative. However when you miss payments then that is a big red flag.

Having an Excellent credit score, dosen't mean you are special. It's mean you are doing what you suppose to do.

You are living in their word, not other way around.







                
Message 4 of 53
AlgorithmIsWrong
New Member

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

@CYBERSAM , for being a Senior Contributor, one would think you'd bring in more insight and factual information, but that response was just not good.  Full of opinion just like the bureaus themselves.

 

Step it up my guy.  I know you can be better.

Message 5 of 53
coldfusion
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

@CYBERSAM  does just fine.  

(11/2024)
FICO 8 (EX) 850 (TU) 850 (EQ) 850
FICO 9 (EX) 850 (TU) 850 (EQ) 850

$1M+ club

Artist formerly known as the_old_curmudgeon who was formerly known as coldfusion
Message 6 of 53
Slabenstein
Valued Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

Wrong with respect to what?  A score model that didn't penalize properly for delinquency wouldn't be useful to lenders for underwriting, and so wouldn't be used in any case.


Message 7 of 53
CorpCrMgr1
Valued Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???

It was once explained to me in the Forums it's like your significant other cheating on you one time. Ten years of flawless behavior and then the cheating. How much could you trust this person?

I had stated prior it's like with a baseball hitter not getting a hit 50% of the time would still be considered amazing player.

Message 8 of 53
Brian_Earl_Spilner
Credit Mentor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???


@AlgorithmIsWrong wrote:

Prediction is pretty much an opinion in my eyes and peoples credit worthiness should not be  judged based on an opinion.  If one late payment hurts you by 20+ points when all your prior payments were on time, one would take into account all the positive history and slightly ding the person for a late payment. Key word there is "slightly."   Now, if the late payments continue, then sure, I could understand the huge decline.  This is why the system is flawed.  

 

Perhaps, delayed reporting from agencies to the bureaus is warranted.  Where a 3 to 6 month period is scored rather than individual months.


The score is a quick glance at likelihood to perform and is based on datapoints. As mentioned before, if they find a correlation between datapoints that is consistent across enough people, it can be assumed that it is a fairly accurate predictor of what can happen and factored into the algorithm.

 

Now, is it fair? I don't think so. I just finished a 7 year rebuild meaning I went 7 years since my last derogatory, but was penalized until the end. I also don't like the fact that paying my chargeoffs and collections still hurt me more than a bankruptcy. I fulfilled my obligations, people who filed bankruptcy did not. I didn't hit the 700s until about 5 years in, while some filing bankruptcy were able to do it in as early as 2 years. I was relegated to toy limits while people literally a week out of bankruptcy were able to get multi-thousand dollar limits from a lender they just burned. So I get what you're saying in regards to scoring us on the overall reporting versus a single incident. But that's not how it works. The score is based on a snapshot of your profile at that moment in time. The new trending scores will hopefully help in a situation like mine, showing I was paying everything down and off and scoring me appropriately for it.

 

Having said all that, the score is just a number and doesn't dictate likelihood of approval. Lenders will always use their own criteria for approvals.  I've always been an outlier and able to get approved for things my scores say I shouldn't. It also goes the other way. Cap1 is not friendly to people with 800+ scores.  I use it as just a guideline and to quickly verify nothing is wrong. If I see my score drop 30 points, I know there's something that needs my attention. Otherwise, I don't bother checking it before an app as the lender will either approve me, or they won't. 

    
Message 9 of 53
Kforce
Valued Contributor

Re: Anyone else think the algorithm is wrong???


@AlgorithmIsWrong wrote:

Like seriously, you get one late payment and you get hit with a 20+ point decrease.  While making consistent, on-time monthly payments and your score increases slower than molasses .  A car note gets paid off, there goes your score down the drain.  There's something definitely wrong with the whole model and I wonder if anyone within the three credit bureaus and myFICO know how to reimagine the system.  


I think they are doing a good job.

Not perfect but not really a broken system

Not everyone will agree with every point loss or gain, but the overall

things that are looked at and considered make sense.

 

I wish not having a house or car loan in the last 15 years was not depressing

my score, however I understand that I have no recent history to look at.

Same with all zero, seems petty to punish for paying everything off,

but if you look at it as they have no history of you borrowing anything !

 

The few points lost are made up by years of payment history 

and low utilization.  All zero and no auto:mortgage loans and you 

have 840's not 850. Even -30 for a 30 day and you are still top tier.

 

 

 

Message 10 of 53
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