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Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?

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Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?

I'm trying to understand how the five factors are used on the various FICO 8 scorecards.  Does the 35/30/15/10/10 percentage breakdown apply to all 12 scorecards?  After reading hundreds of comments on the forums, it seems the commonly quoted ratios are only generalizations.  I've read examples of people getting scores of 850 with only open revolving accounts, which would indicate the 10% allocation for credit mix doesn't apply to their scorecard.  I've also read examples of dirty scores that either don't use all the five factors, or don't weight them according to the commonly quoted percentages.

 

Has anyone documented factor weighting differences between the different scorecards?

Figuring it out for all 12 scorecards is a monumental task, so I'm primarily interested in thick files and dirty files without bankruptcies.

 

Message 1 of 55
54 REPLIES 54
Valued Contributor

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@nerdralph wrote:

 it seems the commonly quoted ratios are only generalizations.


Yep.

 


@nerdralph wrote:

I've read examples of people getting scores of 850 with only open revolving accounts, which would indicate the 10% allocation for credit mix doesn't apply to their scorecard.


The buffer affects that... in FICO 8 and 9, the algorithms can generate scores ABOVE 850 for some reports.

 

The score is then truncated down to 850 for reporting/display.  The difference between the "real" internal maximum score and the 850 maximum for display is the buffer - once you are scoring up in the buffer range, you can have a reporting event that would normally result in a score decrease appear to not affect your score, leaving it at 850.  But in reality, you still lost points out of the 850+ buffer.

 

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:850 TU9:850 EX9:850
EQ5:809 TU4:789 EX2:819 - 2019-09-06
Message 2 of 55
Super Contributor

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@nerdralph wrote:

I've read examples of people getting scores of 850 with only open revolving accounts, which would indicate the 10% allocation for credit mix doesn't apply to their scorecard. 

 


That isn't correct, as "credit mix" is satisfied even if there's a closed installment loan on one's CR and their only open accounts are revolvers.  An open installment loan can positively impact the Amounts Owed sector of the Fico pie if it's paid down significantly, which is something that the closed loan can't accomplish. 

Message 3 of 55
Valued Member

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

@nerdralph wrote:

I've read examples of people getting scores of 850 with only open revolving accounts, which would indicate the 10% allocation for credit mix doesn't apply to their scorecard. 

 


That isn't correct, as "credit mix" is satisfied even if there's a closed installment loan on one's CR and their only open accounts are revolvers.


So are you saying that credit mix is a factor in all (or most) scorecards?  I'm think I've seen people get 850 scores without open or closed installment loans.  If credit mix is still a factor for those people,  then the 850 score cap @iv mentioned could explain that.

Message 4 of 55
Valued Member

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@iv wrote:


@nerdralph wrote:

I've read examples of people getting scores of 850 with only open revolving accounts, which would indicate the 10% allocation for credit mix doesn't apply to their scorecard.


The buffer affects that... in FICO 8 and 9, the algorithms can generate scores ABOVE 850 for some reports.

 

The score is then truncated down to 850 for reporting/display.  The difference between the "real" internal maximum score and the 850 maximum for display is the buffer - once you are scoring up in the buffer range, you can have a reporting event that would normally result in a score decrease appear to not affect your score, leaving it at 850.  But in reality, you still lost points out of the 850+ buffer.


OK, so do we have an idea of the max internal score is?

Message 5 of 55
Valued Contributor

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@nerdralph wrote:

OK, so do we have an idea of the max internal score is?


Not fully determined.

 

Other than observing practical effects, such as report changes that "normally" would result in score decreases, it's fairly difficult to do direct research on this. (And I'm not aware of published data on the buffer, if it varies between the CRAs, and how much it varies between FICO 8/9 and the industry options.)

 

Based on personal observations, it's at least 15-25 points over the nominal max.

 

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:850 TU9:850 EX9:850
EQ5:809 TU4:789 EX2:819 - 2019-09-06
Message 7 of 55
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?

Another easy difference is the lack of AOYA (falls under the new credit bucket of metrics) in the derogatory scorecards.

 

In broad strokes through much of the algorithms there's a lot of consistency in the reason for changes if not the magnitude, but there are some things like the above which are scorecard dependent.

 

That said AAOA and inquiries both fall under that new credit bucket and they're in every scorecard AFAIK.

 




        
Message 8 of 55
Super Contributor

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?

When the discussion tries to get too specific about these percentages, disappointing answers are the result. 

All and each of the scoring models are taking somewhat different paths in their calculation, to sort millions of files, with many ( thousands of? ) variables / data values in each account, to arrive at The Number At This Moment For This Model.

And then the lender either does an automated credit granting / denial decision ( in the case of a credit card ) or goes to cavity search review of the borrower anyway, in the case of a mortgage.  

In all scoring models I am aware of, paying all accounts at least the minimum payment, for many months and years, gets you a good score. Credit Mix might help a bit, but see the previous paragraph.  Keeping utilization down helps score, and often saves money if fewer balances are carried at interest rates. 

The other thing is, each scoring model still applies to the same population, so everyone is on that same relative bell curve, as structured for that one model. Lenders who use a particular model adjust their expectations and decisions based on that model, not a different model. And the only way to do well on all models is to pay on time, limit credit applications, and keep utilization down. 

You could say the models have those percentage categories, but not much more specific than that Smiley Happy

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
Message 9 of 55
Super Contributor

Re: Are the five factors the same on all scorecards?


@nerdralph wrote:


So are you saying that credit mix is a factor in all (or most) scorecards?  I'm think I've seen people get 850 scores without open or closed installment loans.


I would think it is a factor in all scorecards.  How much it matters in terms of signal strength may vary among them though, I don't know.  I think there have been people that have reported an 850 score without an installment loan on this forum due to the top end buffer that has been spoken about previously in this thread.  If all other things are optimized, someone can at times "get away with" not having a factor in place that secures (say) 10-15 points, as those points are made up elsewhere.

Message 10 of 55
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