Bank Card vs Retail Trade accounts with regards to reporting and scores?

[2b2rich]

I just noticed that my Home Depot Consumer card's balance is included in TU's 'Total balance on all of your Bank Card Accounts'.  Anything else in that total is strictly Visa/MCs.

Why wouldn't this be listed in the Total Retail Trades balance instead?  I'm not sure having a balance on any of them is better or worse than the other, but it just seems to me the score model is more critical of bank card balances?

[Imperfectfuture]

So is the insurance industry (but they just like raising rates).

[NRB525]

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@2b2rich wrote:

I just noticed that my Home Depot Consumer card's balance is included in TU's 'Total balance on all of your Bank Card Accounts'.  Anything else in that total is strictly Visa/MCs.

Why wouldn't this be listed in the Total Retail Trades balance instead?  I'm not sure having a balance on any of them is better or worse than the other, but it just seems to me the score model is more critical of bank card balances?

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OP, this is the second comment where you are trying to imply a difference in weighting, that bankcards (bank credit cards) as oppposed to store cards (Syncrony, Commenity) are favorably viewed?

I find it hard to see the logic in this relation, that bank cards, widely used credit cards, are unfavorable to the scoring model relative to store cards, which are highly restrictive in their use.

Please elaborate.

[2b2rich]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@2b2rich wrote:

I just noticed that my Home Depot Consumer card's balance is included in TU's 'Total balance on all of your Bank Card Accounts'.  Anything else in that total is strictly Visa/MCs.

Why wouldn't this be listed in the Total Retail Trades balance instead?  I'm not sure having a balance on any of them is better or worse than the other, but it just seems to me the score model is more critical of bank card balances?

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OP, this is the second comment where you are trying to imply a difference in weighting, that bankcards (bank credit cards) as oppposed to store cards (Syncrony, Commenity) are favorably viewed?

I find it hard to see the logic in this relation, that bank cards, widely used credit cards, are unfavorable to the scoring model relative to store cards, which are highly restrictive in their use.

Please elaborate.

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I never said that bank cards are unfavorable to the scoring model, (at least in the way I believe you may have taken it?), what I seem to be observing with my own credit reports is that the scoring models seem more unfavorable to a bank card reporting a balance, than they are to a store card reporting a balance.

What I've been trying to say (and my apologies if that hasn't been clear), is that, in my play on the data points of my credit reports, all other things considered, unchanged, I get a larger point drop when a bank card reports a balance, than when a store card with the same CL reports a balance of the same amount.

Example:

I have a VISA with a $2K cl and my Walmart consumer charge has a $2K limit.  These cards are the same exact age, applied, approved, and received the same exact month (give or take a week apart or so).

On a month when all of my cards had a zero balance, I let the VISA report a $600 balance and my score dropped 8 points.  I paid it off and the following month all of my cards reported a zero balance.

The following month I charged $600 on my Walmart card and let it report (everything else reported zero balances.  My score dropped 3 points.  I paid it off and the next month all of my cards reported a zero balance.

Now, during these months when all cards reported a zero balance, I not only recouped the points, but also had about an extra 5pt increase, something I usually get.

I have tried the above twice, with similar results, my score always being hit a little bit harder when the bank card reports a balance.

Also, when I was preparing to purchase a home last year, I worked with the lender's credit builder department to see if and where I could improve my mortgage score.

I had a MC reporting something like $400 (the CL was $500 at the time), and I had a store card reporting $1200 (CL $10K).  They ran variations through the score simulator that showed paying the $400 off in full on the MC (bringing it to a zero balance) would bring my mortgage score up to where it needed to be (needed 4pts).   I had already made a payment on the MC, but a subscription was pending that was about to post a $5 balance to it and I asked if that was still ok, and he said no, it needs to be a zero balance.

Because I needed to make a Lowes payment soon, anyway, I asked him if paying down the LOWES, or even in full, would give me the points, and he said no, the bank card needed to report a zero balance for the most points.

[StartingOver10]

From your post, it sounds like the bank cards are weighted more than store cards in the FICO algorium.  I believe it to be so because in addition to your test, I have received comments before on my score results that my 'bankcards' are receiving heavy use  

I suppose this is good to know (that store cards have a lesser impact on your score) when it comes time to tweek your score before making an application. That extra 3 points might make the difference between getting a card/auto/mortgage if you are borderline with your score. 

Thanks for the datapoint!

[2b2rich]

I agree, which brings me back to my original thoughts on this post.. Why is a store card balance being included in the bank card total?

When my washing machine went out, I decided to sell the 15 year old mis-matched dryer, junk the washer, and spring for a new matching set.  I could have put it on a *real* bank card and got rewards back, but because of what I see happening, I put it on my HD and consider the 6 months no financing my reward (though I will have it paid off in 2 payments).

It's not like I'm going to appy for credit or anything for awhile, so a few extra pts drop in my score isn't a huge deal and will when I pay it off in February, but I was just curious as to why it was in the bank card total, that's all.

[NRB525]

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@2b2rich wrote:

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Example:

I have a VISA with a $2K cl and my Walmart consumer charge has a $2K limit.  These cards are the same exact age, applied, approved, and received the same exact month (give or take a week apart or so).

On a month when all of my cards had a zero balance, I let the VISA report a $600 balance and my score dropped 8 points.  I paid it off and the following month all of my cards reported a zero balance.

The following month I charged $600 on my Walmart card and let it report (everything else reported zero balances.  My score dropped 3 points.  I paid it off and the next month all of my cards reported a zero balance.

Now, during these months when all cards reported a zero balance, I not only recouped the points, but also had about an extra 5pt increase, something I usually get.

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Ok, this is not the typical behavior we see in a file. All revolving credit cards, and store cards, at zero should result in some score drop. To clarify, when this happens, all, every, card has reported zero on the statement and updated the bureaus?

What are your myFICO scores on each bureau?

Since you want to compare Bank Cards to Store Cards, could you please list out all your Bank Cards and their limits, and Store Cards and their limits, so we get an idea of the total limits of each group. There may be something in the Utilization in each group that would be interesting to understand, might or might not lead to some comments about your score behavior.

As to your original question, I dunno. #shrug# But your score changes are interesting.

[Aahz]

 This is absolutely fascinating to me as I've never heard of results like those you've reported.

Where are you getting this information from?  I don't see the 'Total balance on all of your Bank Card Accounts' vs 'Total Retail Trades' on any of my report checking services.

Additionally, I'd love to see the same info NRB is looking for below. 

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NRB525 wrote:

What are your myFICO scores on each bureau?

Since you want to compare Bank Cards to Store Cards, could you please list out all your Bank Cards and their limits, and Store Cards and their limits, so we get an idea of the total limits of each group. There may be something in the Utilization in each group that would be interesting to understand, might or might not lead to some comments about your score behavior.

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