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Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

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RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

For those who crave numbers, for what it is worth, which may be very little, I will share with you my experiences.  I have been running my own, extensive Excel FICO model for some time now that includes all aspects of credit score for each category, and one of the categories I have been tracking is the effect of prior late payments on scores. Here is what my modeling and experience has shown.   FICO states that lates are 30% of total FICO of 850, leading to a max score of 255 pts for this category, and remain in your scoring algorithm for 7 years.  My modeling has assumed that a single “one-down” (30-day late) costs around neg. 12-15 pts initially, and using a straight linear regression over the 7 years that it remains in the CR, the impact drops only about 0.3 pts per months (see table below). Assuning that a “one-down” becomes a “two-down” (i.e., 60-day late), its effect then jumps to around 24-30 pts initially, and again using a straight linear regression, drops off in subsequent months by about 0.6 pts per month.  Similarly, if the late then goes to a “three-down” (90 days late), its effect jumps initially to around neg. 36-45 pts per late, with a monthly linear regression of about 0.9 per month.
In general, for example, if you have three TLs, and are late on all three for only one month, you can expect an immediate hit of -36 to -45 pts.  If you then miss payments on all three the next month, your hit will then go to -72 to -90 pts, and so on.

In a specific case example of one who had 20 prior lates averaging about three years ago, but had been clean since then.  Mr. credit evaluator sits down, assuming the best case, that each was only “one –down’” and now having matured for three years (36 months) from occurence, the  hit after three years would  still be 20x6.9, or  -138 of the total of 255 pts for this category, and with a subsequent monthly future net gain of only around 6 pts per month as all 20 mature beyond the current date.  So Mr. Credit evaluator looks at the credit report, in detail..  He then finds that half of these became “two down”  a month after becoming only “one down,” and this now amounts to a total  hit of  69+137, or -206 of the total possible 255 even after three years.  And if it were even worse, if 10 remained only “one down,” 5 had gone “two down,” the next month after being “one down,”and five then went “three-down” the month after being “two down,” the hit even after three years would still be 69+68+103, or a total remaining hit of -240 out of the total of 255.  You can do the math for other scenarios, up to -255 max loss.

And the only remaining point I will make regarding late payments is that, regardless of the specific numerical FICO impact, other credit evaluation factors are popilarly used by creditors.   One popular scoring method is by category, and is often used for such things as quick “pre-screening offers”   Clean and dirty files are the first cut categories.  Your file is either clean or dirty.  One who has gone “two down” or “three down” is caste by most credit evaluators into a general category referred to in the industry as a “dirty credit file.”  Some creditors use models that put those with dirty files into weeding categories separate from those with clean files (i.e., those who have no 60+ lates).  And then the human evaluation factor enters.  Dirty file people remain so for seven years, and thus this category is semi-permanent.  FairIsaac has reported to the FTC that, in their analysis, for example, that one with a dirty file remains at near a 40% risk rate to go dirty again within the next one to two years, even after 3 years from the last dirty.  You had better belive that creditors look very seriously at that risk category, which remains with you for seven years, when making any credit decision.  FICO score is not the end all.  You may successfuly rebuild your credit score with gains in other categories, but lendors look at your credit report, and not just your three digit FICO score.  If you have a dirty file, you may expect closer scrutiny, and a possible denial letter that does not reference your FICO score, but rather references your past payment history, regardless of FICO score.  Would you lend to someone who is placed in a 40%+ risk category of possible further 60+ lates within the next one to two years, even though their payment history is totally clean over the past three years?  Hmmmm.....  If your file is dirtied, then that is where you are, even aftter three years of clean credit living!

You may think this is all but a lot of numbers.  But THEY look at the stats, and do not look at you face to face.  This is how decisions are made in the big silver buildings.....

DONT EVER PAY LATE!  DONT EVER PAY LATE!  ESPECIALLY OVER 3O DAYS!!!!!!!!!!

Late Payment Lookup Table Assumptions ( per late)           

MonthsSince                    30Late          60Late                   90Late

1                                     -12.0             -24.0                     -36.0

12                                   -10.3             -20.6                     -30.9

24                                   -8.6               -17.1                     -25.7

36                                   -6.9               -13.7                     -20.6

48                                   -5.1               -10.3                     -15.4

84                                   0.0                0.0                        0.0



Message Edited by RobertEG on 01-06-2008 09:51 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 01-06-2008 10:05 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 01-06-2008 10:11 PM
Message 131 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Robert - Thanks for doing all this work and for sharing it with us.  I'm sure many people will find it useful.
 
Unfortunately, events like late payments do not always have a straight linear regression.  A single 30-day late may drop 12 points from one person's score, but it can do serious carnage to a FICO High Achiever's score (someone who has never ever missed a payment) -- as much as a 100 point loss.
 
Also, the effect of the late payment decreases over time as you have shown, but other factors move the score up and down.  The age of your oldest account is continuously increasing, which ups the score.  But if you get pushed up into the next bucket, you may experience a temporary score setback.
 
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain ...
Message 132 of 272
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Thanks, masdeocho!  You are absolutely right!  Many factors, such as account aging, will aso affect overall score in one or more of the other four categories of FICO scoring.  My comments were only intended to address the single category of late payments, and not overall FICO score projection.. As you have stated, , as each TL ages, it also factors into the credit length categfory, and thus the grand FICO mystery score.  I was just trying to show the effect of one isolated category. 
As for my "linear projection" assumption of the effect of lates, I also agree with your observation that ths may not, in fact, be the pojection that is actually used in the real FICO model, but since FICO does not disclose its model, one can only make a guess.  But the max and min scores for this category are specified by Mr. Fair Isaac FICO, so whether the regression between those two points is linear or exponential, or some other mathematical function, wont matter much.. I offer only ballpark analysis!  I pray that some numbers are more helpful than just simple idle specuation, which anyone can idly post on this site.
Anyone wanting to view my full credit model can simple make a request at [REMOVED] and I will send you my current and full model.
Quest on, my FicoHolics!
 

Hi RobertEG

I noticed you posted some personal information in the FICO Forums.  It is generally considered unwise to share such information on a public forum.  For your privacy and safety, I've removed this post for you.

Thank you- Timothy

 

Message Edited by RobertEG on 01-08-2008 02:58 AM



Message Edited by Timothy on 01-08-2008 05:25 AM
Message 133 of 272
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

I have assumed a linear projection of the effect of lates based, not on my crystal ball, but rather on the risk analysis stats offered by Fair Isaac, which shows their risk stats anaylsis to be almost linear for up to five years from the reported date of a late.  See the risk percentage data reported by FairIsaac to the FTC.  That, I think, is the best source available on projecting the FICO risk analysis of late payment scoring.  I welcome any more authoritative projection.
And, again, I realize that this only applies to this single area of FICO scoring, for as time winds on, points are also gained in other categories, such as %util, and length of credit.  Add 'em all up for total effect. 


Message Edited by RobertEG on 01-11-2008 10:24 PM
Message 134 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Thank you so very much RobertEG.
 
I will definately never ever ever be late with my payments after reading your post !!
 
Message 135 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Hello Robert,
 
I would like more information on your spreadsheet efforts.
 
Thanks,
 
Sharon
Message 136 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!



RobertEG wrote:
Many questions pervade on the effect of late payments on credit score, and how long they will last.
The following is taken from information presented by FairIsaac before the Federal Trade Commission in 1999.  Kinda aged, I know, but still a window into what the FICO model considers, and for how long. 
The payment history FICO category accounts for 30% of total FICO score, and thus a max of 255 pts.  FICO defines a "major derogatory" as any payment in arrears for 60+ days, a real no-no in the model of risk analysis. Risk, in the scoring model, is their statistical evaluation of the chance of one going 60+ again within the next one to two years.  So here is their risk analysis, as reported to the FTC in 1999:
Years since maj derog reported          %risk             thus, neg pts
0-1 yrs                                                96%                     -245
1-2yrs                                                 56%                     -143
2-3 yrs                                                44%                     -112
3-4yrs                                                 33%                     - 84
4+ yrs                                                 22%                     - 56
5-7 yrs                                                No data reported, so dont know
7+ yrs                                                 Drops off if normal revolv. account
 
This is heavy hit stuff!
 
 
 
 
 


Message Edited by RobertEG on 12-05-2007 06:41 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 12-05-2007 06:44 PM

In the case of this aspect of the FICO scoring ... I have a Capital One CO that seems to be reporting "updated" every month now. Does it still go back to the original date of my last payment (approx)? or are they playing the system to keep it hurting the most that it can?
Message 137 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Good thread.  Is Suze Orman's product or Scorewatch helpful?  Thanks.
 
Goal-700
Message 138 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

I have a question I was contacting the Afni collection agency, I had basicly said what was on the pay for delete letter that was posted. Anyway, he said that their company was unable to erase what was already on my file and I had mentioned that I would be willing to pay 50% of what my balance was (if they would be able to delete it from the 3 credit bureaus) Well he said no such luck thier office doesnt do that. My question is has anyone tried the pfd letter with this company and was successful?? And I am looking to buy a home within 2 years this negitive account was placed on 11/07 should I just pay it so my score could go up (if it does) or should I just let it "fall off" my report?? I kinda need a reply A.S.A.P simply because he said the 50% offer would end by 9pm central time. 
 
 
 
 
P.S if I were to pay down the debt in payments would it raise my credit score, I just want my credit score it rise that is why I am considering this proposal??
 
 
Thank you
 
 
 
 
 
Message 139 of 272
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Credit Scoring 101 - START HERE!

Hello, is there a course offered by a college anywhere that teaches about the credit score.
Message 140 of 272
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