Discrepancy between Discover Fico score and Fico Equifax monitoring

[Kazuya]

The issue is though how we keep hearing about how unreliable and "not real" the FAKO scores are. I understand not every lender has the same model and they should not.

Issues with an auto loan is one thing but when 2 people here post about a 50 point discrepency between their "real score aka fico score" and what a regular personal bank told them in a branch is mind blowing.  We are not talking about a 5, 10, not even 15 point difference but a 50.

If anything I would have thought that the fico scores would be the end of all scores for credit cards and credit lines from banks.

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@Anonymous wrote:

The issue here is that the lending industry uses a wide variety of scores, and each scoring model has slightly different weights.  For example, the "auto enhanced" option gives greater weight to past auto loan history.

This makes perfect sense if you're in the lending industry, but it's hard on consumers, who naively believe that there's "one true score".  In reality there isn't.

People on these forums tend to overuse scores, I think, and they assume that if they reach some threshold like 720 then a lender will automatically approve them.  In reality, approval criteria are more complex than this.  It would be better to focus on what's in the report, and try to improve it.  For many cases where a person is denied credit, the reasons are obvious -- poor payment history, maxed out cards, 10 new CCs in the last few months, and so on.

It takes a lot of work to develop a good scoring model, and I personally would be loath to lump them all together, and say that they're doing basically the same thing.  I personally have found it most useful to use my monthly EX 04 / TU 08 scores as general indicators, rather than assuming that there's a single "right" score.

Suppose that MyFico switched to using the 04 scores, thereby matching the mortgage business.  This would solve certain problems, but scores would still not match those used by lenders, because lenders are using proprietary scoring models, along with 08 scores and auto/bankcard enhanced scores.

Or suppose that MyFico makes available the complete 04, 08, auto enhanced, and bankcard enhanced series, for a total of 12 scores.

This would benefit a few people, while leaving most folks terribly confused.

Or suppose that FICO as a company ceases to exist 30 minutes from now, and the vacuum is filled by the Chase Deluxe scoring model (0-500 range), the Citi Supreme model (245-795 range), and the Discover Excelsior model (385-1025 range).

Would things be better off in such a scenario?

[Revelate]

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@Kazuya wrote:

The issue is though how we keep hearing about how unreliable and "not real" the FAKO scores are. I understand not every lender has the same model and they should not.

Issues with an auto loan is one thing but when 2 people here post about a 50 point discrepency between their "real score aka fico score" and what a regular personal bank told them in a branch is mind blowing.  We are not talking about a 5, 10, not even 15 point difference but a 50.

If anything I would have thought that the fico scores would be the end of all scores for credit cards and credit lines from banks.

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@Anonymous wrote:

The issue here is that the lending industry uses a wide variety of scores, and each scoring model has slightly different weights.  For example, the "auto enhanced" option gives greater weight to past auto loan history.

This makes perfect sense if you're in the lending industry, but it's hard on consumers, who naively believe that there's "one true score".  In reality there isn't.

People on these forums tend to overuse scores, I think, and they assume that if they reach some threshold like 720 then a lender will automatically approve them.  In reality, approval criteria are more complex than this.  It would be better to focus on what's in the report, and try to improve it.  For many cases where a person is denied credit, the reasons are obvious -- poor payment history, maxed out cards, 10 new CCs in the last few months, and so on.

It takes a lot of work to develop a good scoring model, and I personally would be loath to lump them all together, and say that they're doing basically the same thing.  I personally have found it most useful to use my monthly EX 04 / TU 08 scores as general indicators, rather than assuming that there's a single "right" score.

Suppose that MyFico switched to using the 04 scores, thereby matching the mortgage business.  This would solve certain problems, but scores would still not match those used by lenders, because lenders are using proprietary scoring models, along with 08 scores and auto/bankcard enhanced scores.

Or suppose that MyFico makes available the complete 04, 08, auto enhanced, and bankcard enhanced series, for a total of 12 scores.

This would benefit a few people, while leaving most folks terribly confused.

Or suppose that FICO as a company ceases to exist 30 minutes from now, and the vacuum is filled by the Chase Deluxe scoring model (0-500 range), the Citi Supreme model (245-795 range), and the Discover Excelsior model (385-1025 range).

Would things be better off in such a scenario?

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This backlash is all incredibly recent: since myFICO moved the Equifax version from Beacon 5.0 to Beacon 9.0 to be precise.  If you go back 3 months it was a once a month thing and usually resolved within 3-4 replies: we're on page 3 of this one already.

Before this nobody really cared what the score was because Equifax matched a mortgage identically... most people aren't too concerned about their credit card scores as that's an incredibly minor to the point of absolutely trivial measure compared to mortgage qualification. Unfortunately the EQ score here matched the EQ score on a tri-merge pull in a mortgage for literally years, and there's still even dozens if not hundreds of mortgage loan officers out in the wild suggesting that the Equifax score be pulled from myFICO... and suddenly it doesn't match but the world hasn't caught up to that.

Stepping away from any sort of moderator / community lead / wtfever person and just as a consumer:

I can't pretend to understand FICO's rationale on it, and I railed bitterly both against the Equifax change and also the impending Transunion change (lobbying to get it to TU Classic '04 which is another mortgage score but doubt they're going to take my and the rest of the moderators' comments on it... we're just volunteers and this decision was made by actual FICO employees).  As is they're simply driving their subscribers into the hands of Equifax directly: in all my years and through the wars of corporate America I've been involved in, not certain I've ever seen anyone toss their revenues out the window in a similar fashion... if the forums are a loss leader to drive subscription and product revenue for the FICO consumer division, well.... sigh.

FWIW I somewhat cynically hope more complaints are made as I hate the new version personally as the only thing I cared about was mortgage qualification.  Maybe they'll revert back (unlikely) or do something actually smart financially and consumer-focused and update the TU '98 lame duck score here to TU '04... but reports were they wanted to migrate to TU '08, which is available for free to anyone who can qualify for a Walmart store, a Barclays, or a Discover card.

[azguy13]

The only way it seems that FICO could please everyone is provide the score for EVERY scoring model they provide to each of the CRAs. However, as this will never happen, we have to understand as a consumer that lenders will pull whichever model best fits their risk management program. That could be a standard EQ08 or it could be an auto-enhanced model. 

People get way too caught up in scores and not enough in their report. Would I love for congress to mandate that all consumers get access to all scoring models and all lenders MUST use ONE model exclusively? Well, yes, that would make it much more simple. However, as stated prior, that would take away their freedom of choice and it will never happen. 

At this point, the score really doesnt matter if your report is clean. Anyone who has had credit for more than a year and has no baddies will be in pretty good shape. If you have some baddies on your report, focus on getting those off instead of meticulously monitoring your score. 

Score < Report

[Kazuya]

Don't get me wrong I am happy with the service. I don't mean to come down so hard, just letting some frustration out in general about credit scores.

Like someone here pointed out, even with all I said, I would still rather have myfico and the services it provides.

[azguy13]

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@Kazuya wrote:

Don't get me wrong I am happy with the service. I don't mean to come down so hard, just letting some frustration out in general about credit scores.

Like someone here pointed out, even with all I said, I would still rather have myfico and the services it provides.

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I agree completely. Sadly, it is not just a FICO issue, it is a system itself. I got into a pretty good discussion yesterday on why CreditKarma is good to monitor things such as UTL and INQs but the score is useless. There are too many people who think they know what they are talking about because they saw a commercial telling them it is a credit score. 

We need to start teaching this stuff in high school so kids can actually understand what they are doing/getting themselves into. 

[mongstradamus]

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@azguy13 wrote:

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@Kazuya wrote:

Don't get me wrong I am happy with the service. I don't mean to come down so hard, just letting some frustration out in general about credit scores.

Like someone here pointed out, even with all I said, I would still rather have myfico and the services it provides.

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I agree completely. Sadly, it is not just a FICO issue, it is a system itself. I got into a pretty good discussion yesterday on why CreditKarma is good to monitor things such as UTL and INQs but the score is useless. There are too many people who think they know what they are talking about because they saw a commercial telling them it is a credit score. 

We need to start teaching this stuff in high school so kids can actually understand what they are doing/getting themselves into. 

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Credit monitoring stuff is almost just as important as scores IMO. I think an lot of people don't realize what is on credit reports matters more than credit scores even fico scores 

[bigjim1]

Guys dont start downplaying the score as not important, and you should not focus on the score and really  only focus on whats on your report....if the score is not high enough, YOU WILL NOT GET APPROVED period!  So yes your scores are crucial!  Now i agree if you get your crap cleaned up your scores will be higher, but again i stand on my original statement a 50 point discrepency is ludicrious?  And for those of you who keep saying unfortunately myfico just recently changed their scoring module and thats the reason.  it still doesn't matter if its off by 50 points, actually more than 50 points in my case.  I have slowly started to repair my credit in the last few years and have not been turned down for a loan in the past two years, and no i am not talking about 12=15% interest.  car loan 3.2, harley loan 4.5.  And yes the huge difference was only on mortgage pulls but again its still off by more than 50 points.  As a former Ex Vp of Mortgage Ops for Mercantile Bank, Bought by Firststar Bank, Bought by US Bank, when i pulled your credit if your middle score was not high enough I DID NOT CARE WHAT was on your credit report you were automatically denied period end of discusstion!  Now if the middle score met our minimum requirement, then and only then did we look for other issues on your credit report....ie....collections etc....so IT ALL STARTS with the credit score.  And yes we sometimes turned down loans when people had very high credit scores over 750 etc because they could not prove their income, or their dti's were to high for the loan requirments, so other things do influence credit decisions but it ALL start with the credit score.

[azguy13]

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@bigjim1 wrote:

Guys dont start downplaying the score as not important, and you should not focus on the score and really  only focus on whats on your report....if the score is not high enough, YOU WILL NOT GET APPROVED period!  So yes your scores are crucial!  Now i agree if you get your crap cleaned up your scores will be higher, but again i stand on my original statement a 50 point discrepency is ludicrious?  And for those of you who keep saying unfortunately myfico just recently changed their scoring module and thats the reason.  it still doesn't matter if its off by 50 points, actually more than 50 points in my case.  I have slowly started to repair my credit in the last few years and have not been turned down for a loan in the past two years, and no i am not talking about 12=15% interest.  car loan 3.2, harley loan 4.5.  And yes the huge difference was only on mortgage pulls but again its still off by more than 50 points.  As a former Ex Vp of Mortgage Ops for Mercantile Bank, Bought by Firststar Bank, Bought by US Bank, when i pulled your credit if your middle score was not high enough I DID NOT CARE WHAT was on your credit report you were automatically denied period end of discusstion!  Now if the middle score met our minimum requirement, then and only then did we look for other issues on your credit report....ie....collections etc....so IT ALL STARTS with the credit score.  And yes we sometimes turned down loans when people had very high credit scores over 750 etc because they could not prove their income, or their dti's were to high for the loan requirments, so other things do influence credit decisions but it ALL start with the credit score.

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The score is a byproduct of what is on the report. Therefore, if you clean up your report, you do not have to worry about what your score is. 

Also, a 50 point discrepency is relatively normal if the consumer is having an auto-enhanced or credit card enhanced score pulled and they have had derogs on those TLs in the past. 

So yes, scores are important for instant approvals online but if someone has multiple collections, lates, and/or liens showing on their report, then the score is the last thing they should worry about. 

Edit: I do completely understand what you are saying though and yes, it is frustrating. However, a lot of us here are not trying to advocate the current system. We are just trying to explain it the best we can with the limited amount information that FICO releases and other techniques consumers have figured out. Until the system is changed, this is what we have to deal with. 

[bigjim1]

  Even at the banks, where I WORKED, you fill out an application i pull credit report, your SCORE is not high enough AUTOMATIC denial, i do not care at that point what else is on your report....if score IS high enough THEN and only THEN would we look at the other STUFF!  ie...debt ratios etc....Those are not online approvals!  So your credit score is the very first area evaluated.

And the score difference SHOULD NOT BE NORMAL PERIOD!  Thats the whole point of this entire discusion..everyone keeps saying thats normal because of this weight and that enhanced etc.....if enough people complain maybe just maybe they will make the adjustments.  After more than 10 years in the industry i know exactly how it worked at the banks, in the older days we used what was called the 5 C's (only one of those C's stands for credit score) to EVALUATE a loan applicant....now its all computer driven no other areas are evaluated UNLESS you first meet the minimum CREDIT SCORES.  Thanks have a good day!

[bigjim1]

of course your score is directly effected or driven by the goods and the bads on your report.  thats not what this discusssion was ever about, it was about the huge differences in the scores when pulled by different lenders for different things.