Does AOYA include installment loans?

[SouthJamaica]

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@HeavenOhio wrote:

I recently added an installment loan for the first time since I started monitoring my credit. A couple scores tumbled, some stayed the same, and others increased dramatically.

My credit reports include six open cards and three closed cards, all opened in 2017 or earlier. I added an installment loan in May 2024.

The scores I pulled during that time will be in the following post. It appears that there are too many characters to fit both the message and the chart into the same post.

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A point loss for adding an installment loan which has a big balance doesn't separate out the "new account" factor. One would need the new loan to be mostly paid down.

[SouthJamaica]

My new SSL will probably show up in my EX report tomorrow.

When it does, I'll have my answer.

[SouthJamaica]

Update 10/2/24

Today my AoYA and AAoA reset.

EX FICO 2 appears to have dropped 21 points.

EX FICO 8 so far has not changed.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@HeavenOhio wrote:

I recently added an installment loan for the first time since I started monitoring my credit. A couple scores tumbled, some stayed the same, and others increased dramatically.

My credit reports include six open cards and three closed cards, all opened in 2017 or earlier. I added an installment loan in May 2024.

The scores I pulled during that time will be in the following post. It appears that there are too many characters to fit both the message and the chart into the same post.

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@HeavenOhio 

Interesting scores. As expected it looks like the Fico "mortgage" scores were not helped by the open loan. Many of those scores went down likely due to a high B/L ratio. However, also as expected, Fico 8 scores saw some score boost with the loan even at the high B/L.

The most interesting data to me was lack of improvement in Fico 9 scores and most Fico 10 scores. This suggests not having an open loan is less of a penalty with these models or having a high B/L is more harmful. Given I had an easier time regaining 850 on EX Fico 9 vs EX Fico 8 without a loan; I suspect not having a loan is less of a penalty on Fico 9 vs 8.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

Update 10/2/24

Today my AoYA and AAoA reset.

EX FICO 2 appears to have dropped 21 points.

EX FICO 8 so far has not changed.

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It sure looks like the new account is having some type of impact. Kinda strange that EX Fico 8 has not changed at all. Hopefully the upcoming reduction in open loan AAoA won't trigger a penalty.

Not sure where your revolving utilizations are these days. High levels can be more impactful on the new credit scorecard.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

Update 10/2/24

Today my AoYA and AAoA reset.

EX FICO 2 appears to have dropped 21 points.

EX FICO 8 so far has not changed.

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It sure looks like the new account is having some type of impact. Kinda strange that EX Fico 8 has not changed at all. Hopefully the upcoming reduction in open loan AAoA won't trigger a penalty.

Not sure where your revolving utilizations are these days. High levels can be more impactful on the new credit scorecard.

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It's possible the FICO 8 will drop tomorrow.

As I have previously told you my revolving utilization is stratospheric, which is why my scores are so depressed.

[Patient957]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

Update 10/2/24

Today my AoYA and AAoA reset.

EX FICO 2 appears to have dropped 21 points.

EX FICO 8 so far has not changed.

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IF your Ex 8 does not drop -- and that's still an if -- then it would support the theory that AoYA matters in Fico 2 but not 8, and AoYRA matters in Fico 8.

[Thomas_Thumb]

I do believe the primer thread made note of a possible difference between Fico 8 and the older Ficos regarding new account treatment. Hopefully SJ's Fico 8 score(s) will hold.

In years past Fico presented scorecard summary charts for both Fico 8 and the older Fico 98/Fico 04 models. The total number of scorecards increased with Fico 8 and minor delinquencies were reassigned to a clean scorecard. However, both illustrations show "new credit" with no call out regarding account type. 

Reason statements associated with new accounts are broken down by account type with a seperate listing for revolving accounts vs installment accounts. However, "new credit" does not specify an account type. Their careful wording certainly suggests the "new credit" scorecard assignment looks at recently opened account of all types.

BTW - a change between clean scorecards does not mandate a score change up or down. It kinda depends on how optimized the various scoring attributes are in a file. Score ranges overlap substantially and many clean scorecards reach 850.

Looking forward to the final results. Any major difference in score shift among the EX Fico models will be noteworthy. HeavenOhio's data was certainly insightful.

[SouthJamaica]

Thanks @Patient957 and @Thomas_Thumb 

Yes but I'm not jumping to any conclusions. It's possible there is just a time delay.

True that a scorecard change could mean a score gain, a score loss, or no change at all. But in my profile, there have only been a few times in which I gained entrance to, and then fell out of, the AoYA 12 mo+ scorecard. And in each instance it meant 26 EX FICO 8 points on my admission, and minus 26 points on my exiting.

But of course in those instances it was all about revolving accounts. This will be the first time with a new installment account.

[SouthJamaica]

Update 10/3/24

Still no point loss to EX FICO 8, despite the 21 point loss to EX FICO 2.

Can it be that EX FICO 2 has a scorecard for AoYA 12 months + while the comparable EX FICO 8 scorecard is for AoYRA 12 months +?

I managed to pull a 3-bureau report the day before the new loan hit, and this weekend will be pulling another 3-bureau report. The reports, although not in real time, will be only 5 or 6 days apart, so they may provide insight into how the EX experience compares to TU FICO 8 and 4, and EQ FICO 8 and 5.

As of this morning, the old loan is paid off, and the new loan is down to 8.5%. These changes might not report until the beginning of November.