Exp score dropped 16 points

[FireMedic1]

Sorry @Jnbmom 

Some things will never make sense. No change, and in the middle of all my accounts billing dates. In 1 day.

Side note: You saw my BK EE and 41 pt gain with FICO. Guess what CK gave? 15pts! Hope that puts a smile on your face.

[GZG]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

(This is a lot like the argument that says that when you gain those 25 points for a 92% paid off installment loan, and then lose them when the loan pays off, it is explained as you received a "bonus" for hitting that mark, but then they took away the "bonus.")  

I have never met anyone who loses 10+ points from their FICO score and thinks of it as a loss of a bonus.  It's disheartening and potentially damaging if you had borderline scores.

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I feel like the 'bonus' language comes the perspective of 'people trying to explain FICO' as opposed to how consumers view their credit score 

me eating a 16 point loss for going all zero:

I understood what happened and when I explained the FICO logic to myself, I thought of those points being bonus points,

But when I saw the point drop, I, personally, didn't think of those credit score points I lost as 'bonus points'

it took us, as humans, a few moments to figure out the most likely culprit for the lost points, so an AI with infinite data should be able to do so instaneously and provide that information to the consumer, they're just choosing not to

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Jnbmom wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

I can assure you that her aggregate utilization dropping from 3% to 2% did not cause her score to drop.  There's something else you're missing.

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Yes I was sure that didn't cause it , didn't realize the AU into the equation.

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The first time I read about that separate all zero penalty on AU cards, I was skeptical that it existed. That seemed a little (a) far fetched and (b) irrational, even for the stranger outposts of the FICO algorithms.

Then I actually tested it with an AU, and found that it really did exist, and that the penalty was far from nominal.

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I've thought about this before, and what to me is most interesting is that that AU account is obviously adding at least those 11 points to the profile.   If you were to completely remove that AU account (and not have it simply update to "terminated" and moved to the closed accounts section), you would lose at least those points.   FICO can't give you an all zero penalty for an AU account if you don't have one.   But obviously that AU account is helping you, at least when it reports a small balance.  

(This is a lot like the argument that says that when you gain those 25 points for a 92% paid off installment loan, and then lose them when the loan pays off, it is explained as you received a "bonus" for hitting that mark, but then they took away the "bonus.")  

I have never met anyone who loses 10+ points from their FICO score and thinks of it as a loss of a bonus.  It's disheartening and potentially damaging if you had borderline scores.

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There is no penalty for not having an AU account. However, if you have 1 or more such accounts then some AU activity is looked for. No activity => penalty. I think it is a conditional type metric.

Some posters have had AU accounts that contributed nothing to increasing AAoA. Eliminating the AU account(s) reportedly did not result in a score drop.

Fico scoring is kind of like gymnastics routines. The routine (scorecard) has a certain maximum potential score. While multiple routines (scorecards) may have the same potential score, the routines with a lower degree of difficulty require better execution for the same score. Points are deducted for flaws in execution.

A scorecard or routine must include certain types of essential elements. Adding extra elements of a certain type may or may not help score depending on how well the other elements of the same type classification were excuted. However, failed execution (such as a fall) on an unnecessary element (or all $0 on AU accounts) will hurt score.

[M_Smart007]

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@GZG wrote:

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

(This is a lot like the argument that says that when you gain those 25 points for a 92% paid off installment loan, and then lose them when the loan pays off, it is explained as you received a "bonus" for hitting that mark, but then they took away the "bonus.")  

I have never met anyone who loses 10+ points from their FICO score and thinks of it as a loss of a bonus.  It's disheartening and potentially damaging if you had borderline scores.

---

I feel like the 'bonus' language comes the perspective of 'people trying to explain FICO' as opposed to how consumers view their credit score 

me eating a 16 point loss for going all zero:

I understood what happened and when I explained the FICO logic to myself, I thought of those points being bonus points,

But when I saw the point drop, I, personally, didn't think of those credit score points I lost as 'bonus points'

it took us, as humans, a few moments to figure out the most likely culprit for the lost points, so an AI with infinite data should be able to do so instaneously and provide that information to the consumer, they're just choosing not to

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@GZG,

I should be glad that my EX FICO8 does not move any more.

No matter "ALLZERO", AZEO, AZE5,6,7 or 8.

I  have NO AU's on my file(s)

I am at AoYRA penalty four+ years running.

Also max inquiry penalty four+ years running.

many new accounts. /12 and /24

AAoA 4 Years, 0 Month

AoOA 40 Years, 0 Month AMERICAN EXPRESS

Last time EX FICO8 budged was April 5th 2022

for @FireMedic1 , The patient has "Flatlined"!!!

[Thomas_Thumb]

I was flatlined at 850 for 6.5 years on classic Fico 8 even though I often reported balances on 100% of cards. Card utilizations reported over 50% a few times and even 75% once during that time. Maintained 850 with the no recent revolving activity penalty as well. Same flatline on classic Fico 9.

Interestingly, I did/do have one AU card. It reported a zero balance once in 2016 and that was when TU Fico 8 dropped to 845. If I had no AU, I'm sure score would have been 850 instead of 845.

Since closing my only open loan 12/2020, no more easy flatlining. Can still reach 850 sporadically but never at AZE(4-6) or with any elevated card utilizations.

@M_Smart007 

Best I can tell the top Fico 8 scorecard has around 25 points worth of 850 buffer. You can have some flawed execution of elements and still reach/hold 850. Some lesser scorecards have 850 potential but require near flawless execution on scoring metrics to get there.

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@Jnbmom wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

I can assure you that her aggregate utilization dropping from 3% to 2% did not cause her score to drop.  There's something else you're missing.

---

Yes I was sure that didn't cause it , didn't realize the AU into the equation.

---

The first time I read about that separate all zero penalty on AU cards, I was skeptical that it existed. That seemed a little (a) far fetched and (b) irrational, even for the stranger outposts of the FICO algorithms.

Then I actually tested it with an AU, and found that it really did exist, and that the penalty was far from nominal.

---

I've thought about this before, and what to me is most interesting is that that AU account is obviously adding at least those 11 points to the profile.   If you were to completely remove that AU account (and not have it simply update to "terminated" and moved to the closed accounts section), you would lose at least those points.   FICO can't give you an all zero penalty for an AU account if you don't have one.   But obviously that AU account is helping you, at least when it reports a small balance.  

(This is a lot like the argument that says that when you gain those 25 points for a 92% paid off installment loan, and then lose them when the loan pays off, it is explained as you received a "bonus" for hitting that mark, but then they took away the "bonus.")  

I have never met anyone who loses 10+ points from their FICO score and thinks of it as a loss of a bonus.  It's disheartening and potentially damaging if you had borderline scores.

---

There is no penalty for not having an AU account. However, if you have 1 or more such accounts then some AU activity is looked for. No activity => penalty. I think it is a conditional type metric.

Some posters have had AU accounts that contributed nothing to increasing AAoA. Eliminating the AU account(s) reportedly did not result in a score drop.

Fico scoring is kind of like gymnastics routines. The routine (scorecard) has a certain maximum potential score. While multiple routines (scorecards) may have the same potential score, the routines with a lower degree of difficulty require better execution for the same score. Points are deducted for flaws in execution.

A scorecard or routine must include certain types of essential elements. Adding extra elements of a certain type may or may not help score depending on how well the other elements of the same type classification were excuted. However, failed execution (such as a fall) on an unnecessary element (or all $0 on AU accounts) will hurt score.

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I guess when a lender on recon asks me the reason for my BK7, I can just tell them that I fell of a balance beam.  

[Rowdy_Randolf]

@Thomas_Thumb ,

Equating Fico scoring to gymnastics scoring is the most elegant analogy of credit scoring I've ever read. I'm totally gonna steal that, but I'll (begrudgingly give you credit. Well done!

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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There is no penalty for not having an AU account. However, if you have 1 or more such accounts then some AU activity is looked for. No activity => penalty. I think it is a conditional type metric.

Some posters have had AU accounts that contributed nothing to increasing AAoA. Eliminating the AU account(s) reportedly did not result in a score drop.

Fico scoring is kind of like gymnastics routines. The routine (scorecard) has a certain maximum potential score. While multiple routines (scorecards) may have the same potential score, the routines with a lower degree of difficulty require better execution for the same score. Points are deducted for flaws in execution.

A scorecard or routine must include certain types of essential elements. Adding extra elements of a certain type may or may not help score depending on how well the other elements of the same type classification were excuted. However, failed execution (such as a fall) on an unnecessary element (or all $0 on AU accounts) will hurt score.

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I guess when a lender on recon asks me the reason for my BK7, I can just tell them that I fell of a balance beam.  

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A BK7 is more like falling off, getting injured and being unable to finish the routine. The coach (lender) needs to assess your physical (financial) health in detail 😬.

[Jnbmom]

Just an update my Apple Card that she is an AU on just reported a 39.00 balance instead of zero and her score went back up 16 points 😂

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@Jnbmom wrote:

Just an update my Apple Card that she is an AU on just reported a 39.00 balance instead of zero and her score went back up 16 points 😂

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Trust me, you will sleep better at night knowing that your daughter is now more credit worthy.