FICO 10T vs. Vantage 4

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@Horseshoez wrote:

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@PepsterinBklyn wrote:

I'm very puzzled . Between my (3) FICO 10T scores, the lowest one is 838. Understanding that Vantage 4 is also trended data, I don't understand why my Vantage 4 is 40 points lower. It's the same trending data albeit Vantage 4 is a score based on a  tri-merged report.

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The underlying data may well be the same, however, the scoring models are different; odds are pretty good they will never totally line up.

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^ True. The models are different and therefore should never line up scorewise for all profiles. If they did, they would be the same model and it would be redundant to have both.

The now ancient Fico models used for mortgages are vastly different than the newer Fico models. I could drop my EQ Fico score 5 (Fico 04 model) from 809 to 764 while maintaining EQ Fico 8 and EQ Fico 9 at 850. By comparison my EQ VS3 would drop from 835 to 830. So, I saw a much greater variation among the Fico models than between VS3 and the newer Fico models.

FWIW - VantageScore LLC is owned by our three favorite CBs - EQ, TU and EX.

I suspect VS4 and Fico 10T will be evaluated as a trimerge for each algorithm - middle score used and then compared VS to Fico. My understanding is 2025 will be the launch year.

Wow 2025! I remember Y2K, no cell phones, no internet, no PCs or word processors, no hand held calculators, film only based video, tape based data storage media, typewriters, leaded gasoline, free cigarettes on airlines, no modern copy machines, no color TV, professional sports athletes making ordinary incomes, cars without a/c or power steering and the dawn of: commercial passenger jet air service, satellites in orbit and manned space flight.

[Horseshoez]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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Wow 2025! I remember Y2K, no cell phones, no internet, no PCs or word processors, no hand held calculators, film only based video, tape based data storage media, typewriters, leaded gasoline, free cigarettes on airlines, no modern copy machines, no color TV, professional sports athletes making ordinary incomes, cars without a/c or power steering and the dawn of: commercial passenger jet air service, satellites in orbit and manned space flight.

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Yup, I remember all those things, plus a few things I'd rather forget, and without going into too much detail, outhouses...

[FlaDude]

So if Vantage 4 scrores are actually going to be important at some point, how do you go about getting them? I know SYNC/Lowes shows TU Vantage 4, but I'm not sure how to see the other two CBs. CK, Wallethub, and Nerdwallet still show Vantage 3 and the various paid services all seem to just show FICO scores.

[PepsterinBklyn]

It's been very slow to become available for most people which is sad. SOME Synchrony cards offer it, but I avoid Synschrony because of their card closing reputuation. Some credit unions are now also offering it incuding mines (Jovia), but Jovia only does it once per quarter. 

[PepsterinBklyn]

By the way.... As far as I've been able to determine, THERE'S ACTUALLY ONLY ONE, NOT THREE Vantage 4 score. The reports from all 3 bureaus get merged BUT JUST THAT ONE SCORE is produced. That's why when one is seen, it always says Vantage 4 TU. Jovia has confirmed this with me via a chat conversation.

[Thomas_Thumb]

That's bad. Then you can't compare credit reports amongst the 3 CBs to analyze impact of file differences on score. I know TU took the lead on promoting VantageScore but, all 3 CBs are joint owners.

Good strategy by CBs to make information more opaque to consumers. No whining to CBs that my score from your CB is low.

Below is a table showing scoring category differences between VS3 and VS4. VantageScore 4.0 has reduced the weight given in $$ balance so it is now more like Fico in that regard. As we know, unlike VS, Fico does not look atavailable credit in $$ terms. VS4 increased weight associated with new credit. It also adds some form of trending as does Fico 10T.

Attribute Category	VS 3.0	VS 4.0
Payment History	40%	41%
Age and Mix of Credit	21%	20%
Credit Utilization	20%	20%
New Credit	5%	11%
Balance	11%	6%
Available Credit	3%	2%

[PepsterinBklyn]

Any action we take to add any credit at all may whack us really hard in VS4. I'm an AZEO person with 7 open cards. My normal reporting isn't even a percentage. It's LITERALLY a dollar amount ($5).... Just as long as that number is more than zero..... LOL I applied for a Cap One card last year which I did get. Of course Cap One dings all 3 bureaus..... BUT THAT'S THE ONLY INQUIRY on all 3 reports. My VS4 goes from 811 to 783 off the inquiry & then after the card reports, it goes down to 775. It took 9 months just to get back to 805.

[FlaDude]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Attribute Category	VS 3.0	VS 4.0
Payment History	40%	41%
Age and Mix of Credit	21%	20%
Credit Utilization	20%	20%
New Credit	5%	11%
Balance	11%	6%
Available Credit	3%	2%

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Thanks for the chart. Lowes showed this for scoring factors which says that payment history is less important balances, credit mix, and aging. That seemed very unlikely to me, your chart appears much more plausible.

[Thomas_Thumb]

You are welcome.

The VS table is the real deal - which reminds me of Evander Holyfield.

[FicoMike0]

great info! So, I can get a vs4 from a Lowe's card? I wonder, can I use the shopping cart trick to get one without a hp? Gee, I shop at home depot, menards and ace hw, but not lowes. So now I have to go to a store I don't shop at, to get a card I don't want, to get a score I don't really care much about. I think I need a wack on the head for thinking about this.