Help Understanding Time Since Negative / Experian?

[Anonymous]

Coming from a thread about applying for an Apple Card. I was declined for having been "recently past due", based on data from TransUnion.

I was naive with credit back in 2010-2011, and I fell 120+ days behind on two cards. There was a 60 day behind on another. In 2012-2013 I paid off all balances. One account was sent to collections, and I settled with them back in 2013. My last late payment that I can find was October 2013 - since then, I've kept utilization low, paid everything on time, etc. I don't like getting declined for cards (as was the norm) so I don't apply to them very often, as a result I only have two open credit cards. No previous BKs or anything. Been trying to rebuild my credit ever since and I'm frustrated that I was declined and that my scores are not as high as I thought they were, with the rationale being unclear.

When I got declined for the card for this reason, I panicked. My TU score was reported as being 723. In looking at my TU report, there are three adverse accounts. Two are very old and don't have an estimated drop-off date. One - my worst - is scheduled to drop off in October 2019. I called TU and confirmed with a rep that there are no "recent" past due payments. He said he would file a dispute so they could investigate; he said some - if not all - of the adverse accounts may have been eligible to be removed sooner.

My Experian score is much lower - 675-680, depending on the source (bank app vs. Experian site). My last late payment is listed as 5 years 10 months - which, OK, I'll accept that, even though it seems like I got up to date sooner - but my "Time Since Negative" is 2 years 7 months. I have no idea what this means, and in the other Apple Card thread I was told this was the reason for my decline. I opened a credit card around that time (was accepted), but I definitely haven't made a late payment in at least 5 years. I've gone through each account and, with the exception of one, there are no negatives reported since 2013.

The one weird account was the one sent to collections and was settled for a lesser amount - it lists "FP" (Failed to Pay) from Dec 2012 to Jan 2019, and "N" (Negative) on Feb 2019. As far as I know, this is not true - I called the issuing company and confirmed I have a $0 balance and it was resolved in 2014, so there was no balance that I failed to pay. I don't know what would have made this stop in Feb 2019, I assumed the card was long since closed and I've just been waiting for it to drop off my report.

So, my questions are:

- What does "Time Since Negative" mean? What's included in this measurement? When I click into the different help categories on Experian, I have no accounts in collections, inquiries, etc.

- What does "FP" / "N" mean? Does this just mean the account was sent to collections, or is the issuing company actively reporting that I haven't paid my bill? 

Any help would be appreciated, I know everyone's credit history is complex but I feel totally lost trying to understand this score and it's impossible to speak with a human at certain bureaus.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure where your CMS is pulling "time since negative" from, but know that it's not a Fico scoring factor.  What matters is your actual time since negative, so if you look at your credit report top to bottom and see your last negative item was (say) 5 years ago, that's the value being considered in terms of Fico scoring... not whatever some CMS fluff software says your "time since negative" is.

It would however make sense that in general these things should match, so I'd be concerned that there may be something on your CR that you're not seeing yourself (perhaps an incorrectly reported negative more recent) that the CMS is picking up on.

It's always a best practice to get your hands on your real hard-copy credit reports, so if you haven't done that recently doing so from annualcreditreport.com may be a wise move.

[BallBounces]

OP, I can not help you with specifics ... but i can tell you for certain the "Time since Negative" flag for me is wonky for EX and listed as follows:

TU: 6 months   (677)

EQ: 6 months   (686)

EX: 1 Month     (636)

Prior to this month, time since negative on EX has been "-" or "0".  It seems it is now starting to age.

You can see from my sig, as a recent rebuilder my scores are sensitive to negatives and their recency. TU and EQ removed negatives and the score healing started realtive to that.  That 6 month (I think) represents a 30 day late on a current account from 6 months ago.   

EX is different, however, , precisely because (I think) some recency noted in a deliquency that I can not exactly identify.  By that I mean, the accounts on all three CRAs seem identical.  

So, I can not prove or demonstrate exactly what EX views differntly, but unlike BBS above I absolutely think there is something that EX views as recent negative which the others do not, based on equivalent data.   And I think it is precisely what accounts for the score discrepencies.   I THINK it may be a paid previously charged off credit card, for which the date was effectively made as May 2019 on EX, but on TU and EQ it got marked as delinquent back to the DOFD when it was marked as paid a couple months ago. 

Since I can not prove or show what it is, this is of course of limited utility....

Also, please understand all my caveats above, mine is not scientifically supportabel data, just what I think is happenign with EX and the recency of deliquency.

[Anonymous]

I have the same experience as well as what Ballbounces described as it pertains to Experian. Something is up with the time since negative. In my case I have a recent negative account but Experian list my time since negative as over 2 years. I have the 3 bureau report service and they even list a time since negative for Equifax that EQ does not list. I have gone over my printed detailed report from annualcreditreport and I cannot exactly nail down what EX is doing.

I think I narrowed it to a particular account but the dates don’t match. Simple put the time since negative should be much WORSE than what EX is reporting.

Right now now it’s helping me but I have been trying to figure out what they are doing in case they “fix” it and start accurately reporting my negative.

[Anonymous]

I just ordered all 3 reports from annual credit report (I couldn’t access them online for the longest time so I had to mail it in).

I’m not sure if I need to dispute anything because I don’t know where it’s getting this negative information. I thought maybe it was any negative impact - like a hard pull - but it’s been over two years so that should have dropped off of my report. I called Experian and got caught in the phone menu, so frustrating. At least I know it’s not me, but it’s keeping my scores down. I know I shouldn’t take credit scores personally, but I do

[RobertEG]

The consideration of a "recently past due" determination, as commented on by others, is an internal evaluation of your credit report by either the vendor or your commercial credit report or by a creditor who is evaluating your actual credit report in their lending determination.

What is or is not recently past due is not a specific item reported to your file, but rather an interpretation made by someone, and has no specific definition.

If you receive such a statement as part of a denial of credit, the FCRA provides a consumer who is denied credit the ability to immediately review a copy of the credit report that was sent to and used by the denying creditor.  More specifically, if you are denied an application for credit (which the FCRA calls an "adverse action"), you can send a copy of the denial letter to the CRA that was identified by the denying creditor as having been used in their determination, and obtain a free copy of your report from that agency  PROVIDED that you send the request and copy of your denial letter to the CRA within 60 days of the date of the denial letter.  See FCRA 615(a)(4) and 612(b).

You dont need to burn one of your free reports from annualcreditreport.com after a denial of credit in order to see the actual information that was the basis for their denial decision.

As for showing of FP or N under your payment history profile, those are not actual delinquency reporting codes that are provided to a CRA.

The CRA reporting manual requires current and prior delinquencies to be reported as either months of delinquency (e.g., 30-late or 60-late), or if the debt has also been charged-off, as CO.  There is no general FP or N reporting code, and use of such is merely some interpretation provided by the vendor who produced your commerical credit report.  You need a real copy of your credit report from either annualcreditreport.com or directly from the CRA in order to assess the actual delinquencies reported by the creditor.

If either are then shown to be inaccurate, you should file a dispute with the CRA contesting the accuracy of the actual reporting rather than the accuracy of some interpretation made by a vendor.