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Thanks again, Jamie123. Note that you may be mishearing the problem. You see me being concerned about how an underwriter would see a new CC within the past YEAR. But the scenario I am raising is him being concerned about a card within the past 4-5 months. (Secondarily I was concerned about how he would view four new cards in a 2-year period, which was your initial recomendation).
I have to emphasize again that the scenario I am trying to protect myself from is getting a new card and then having a sudden change of needs and trying to buy a home 90 days later. The sources of information I have looked it seem to be unanimous in their belief that adding any new revolving line credit in the six months before formal underwriting begins is a bad idea -- it is a big red flag for lenders. It isn't the only piece of data they look at of course ("Did he get a new credit card in the last six months?") Of course not. Nor would it prevent the loan from going through (given the other positive things in my favor). But to be certain (as you seem to be) that it could not alter the size of the loan or the interest rate seems to me unwarranted, given the thunderous unanimity of advice on this particular seen from mortgage lenders.
It's a balancing act. One thing I have been trying to assess is where my credit score would be (in five years) without adding any new credit cards. That was the focus of this thread, phrased as a general question about how high someone can score with a small number of tradelines. The evidence that has been uncovered (such as it is -- the case study provided by a contributor) suggests that a profile like my mine would end up with score in the mid to upper 820s (after all my other accounts fell off).
Against that I need to balance a desire that I have to add more CC's (known to be a red flag to underwriters when they occur shortly before underwriting begins). I have no need for them, in the sense of needing a bigger credit limit or needing the benefits they would provide.. The only reason is to have some extra accounts when the others fall off. But the evidence thus far suggests that the loss of the closed accounts will only create a very small loss in my score: e.g. 833 to 827, say.
The only real concern that I have been able to uncover is your belief that adding a new CC in five years (if I ever chose to do that) would be more damaging to my FICO than if I did it now (while I have lots of other accounts to absorb the impact to my AAoA). But take a look at my earlier post where I discussed that particular concern of yours. To add a card now (which I did with reluctance a few weeks ago) will cause my AAoA to drop to a substantially lower number han it would have if I had waited to do it five years from now -- I calculated the impact for you and showed you that in five years my AAoA would drop only to 12 years (which is an AAoA higher than the known case of David Howe who scored a triple 850 and higher than my current AAoA where I have an 833).
It is as I say a balancing act. I needed to balance not having a lot of extra cards five years from now against the fact that I might have a very sudden need to buy a house in the next five years. After long thought I added one card, which is a compromise between the two concerns. It will turn out to have been the incorrect decision should I have a sudden need to buy in (say) August of this year. But a reasonable gamble is that I won't be buying a house this summer or early fall. And it will be (mildly) nice for my credit profile to have an additional card on it five years from now, four cards (plus two open loans), rathen than three cards.
@Anonymous wrote:Interesting subject, I am acutally one of those people that dont want alot of credit cards but afraid i need them to raise my score.
That would be my husband & I too. We'd prefer no debt, but it's become obvious we must have some if we're to "play the game" and buy a house (nevermind save money on insurance, etc).
Yep, I i know that sometimes a TL will stay on longer than 10 years (though for a different CRA it might fall off). What I have never heard is that this you can make that happen by not deleting old addresses. What's the connection do you think?
In December 2012 I had two accounts and AAoA of 18 yrs and the max score I could reach was 759. As soon as I added card # 3 it immediately crossed the 780 line. But then I went crazy and cut my AAoA to under 4 years by adding a ton of accounts and the 800 is out for now. It will strongly depend on your profile and only you will find out once it happens 😇 (only revolving accounts on my files)
Thanks, lg8302ch! Actually, your case study (of Dec 2012) is immensely helpful. It's the kind of ""hard data" I was originally soliciting.
Can you confirm that (as of Dec 2012) you also had a perfect payment history, a low utiilization (positive but under 9%), and 0-1 inquiries? (I am guessing this is the case but don't know for sure.) And was the credit score ceiling you had apparently hit (759) a true FICO 08 score? Did you have scores from all three bureaus? And you are sure about the AAoA? (18 years is amazing!). Finally, were both CCs being used at least every few months? (e.g. a reported positive balance at least every 3-4 months?)
If yes to all of the above, it probably reveals two things. (1) THIN-NESS. That FICO perceives only two tradelines as too thin of a profile for entry into the 800 club, no matter how stellar the performance. FICO likely wants to see more evidence, i.e. how you have handled more than just two accounts. (2) MIX: That you were taking a substantial hit from showing evidence of managing only CC's -- no history of having managed an installment loan.
Again, thanks for the case study! It's probably a fairly common situation: someone with just a couple CC's and nothing else. Underscores how much adding another card or two plus the occasional installment loan can be a big help to such folks.
@Anonymous wrote:
You know closed accounts last more than 10 sometimes . My sibling has a kohls card closed in 91 still on his credit report . He has a few other TL's that been closed for more than 15 years . I know a few people with 10-15 years old TL's still reporting . As long as you don't delete old addresses your closed TL's could last longer than 10 years .
Do you have a source for that? I'm not saying you're wrong but I've never, to my best recollection, ever heard that before.
Fico 08 scores of 756 EQ 754 EX 731 TU with 5 Cards, 2 small loans. AAoA less than 1 yr, no baddies. Simulator suggests 802/798/786 in 24 months. Current mortgage scores 701/710/699. And a relatively high number of inquiries 6/7/11. Cards are all low limits (<2500). Certainly not elite scores, but respectable. I was over 700 on my 2 clean reports without the last CC and the 2nd loan and an AAoA @ 7 months. Once EX cleared and everything reported i got to current scores which havent moved much since.
The highest you can go is 990 with Fico, however a new acount will hinder you not help you because it will deminish the age of the oldest account. On the other hand if you were to open a tradeline that is not a revolving account with a large down payment say a home or other that can appreciate and not depreciate it can help as long as the DTI ratio is not more than 50%.