How low will my scores go?

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

All as expected. My mortgage was still reporting as open. However, I had no other installment loans.

The "lack of recent installment loan information" is present because this particular metric excludes mortgages..

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So is that metric costing you points?  I mean, the presence of a negative reason code means it's adversely impacting score... is that a Fico 9 thing?  To me that suggests credit mix isn't being satisfied... does that mean you have no other non-mortgage installment loans (closed included) on your CR?

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@Anonymous  My credit mix has always been Very Good, never Excellent/Exceptional. According to Fico representatives, the front end software accuractly reflects the Fico scoring algorithm's assessment of various profile metrics. Certainly my profile is not optimized with respect to credit mix and it is leaving some points on the table for that metric. The situation is not specific to Fico 9.

As you know, mix is a minor contributor to score. I never had an issue holding 850 on Fico 8 or Fico 9 with a VG mix. My recent point drops (Fico 8 and Fico 9) are undoubetedly due to a rise in revolving utilization above a critical threshold.

My open card accounts (1 charge card, 4 credit cards and 1 AU credit card) have remained constant since 2014. No changes in any CLs since 2017. All accounts are listed in each report and all are being used. However, the # of revolving accounts LISTED ON THE 3B SUMMARY has dropped from (EQ=6, TU=6, EX=6 in 4/2018) to (EQ=6, TU=5, EX=5 in 4/2020) to (EQ=5, TU=4, EX=5 in 10/2020). See below pastes (top to bottom 4/2018, 4/2020, 10/2020):

For reference, # of accounts with balances (4/2018, 4/2020, 10/2020 top to bottom):

Why the drop in # of Revolving Accounts as shown in the summary? All accounts being reported and are in active use. Furthermore, the # of accounts showing balances has increased.

I suspect the front end software was updated this year to no longer include the AU card in the count total for any of the CRAs. In addition, I suspect the charge card (which is an open account with 1 month terms as opposed to a revolving account) is now not included in the TU count. Alternatively, my AMEX charge card is not included on any CRA with the AU card being excluded from count on TU only.

I would appreciate input from others that get 3B reports on whether or not their AMEX charge card and/or AU credit cards are included in the "Revolving Accounts" number and/or "Accounts With Balance" number.

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@Thomas_Thumb   From where in the report are you getting those graphics? I can't find them. (Never mind I found them. Sorry.)

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I see, TT.  From that thread it sounds like when looking at credit mix your take on it is not just the different types of credit accounts, but also the quantity of credit accounts.  I always took mix as to mean types... like if you have just revolvers and add an installment loan, credit mix improves due to having another type.  I would then think that in order to further improve credit mix one would need to add additional types (if that's a thing).  From what I'm reading though perhaps it isn't different types, but simply more total accounts?  Perhaps some combination of the two?

I guess the question would be could someone achieve an exceptional credit mix with only (say) 5 accounts, but all 5 were of different types?  Conversely, could someone with what Fico would consider to be an optimal number of accounts (say 20) achieve an exceptional credit mix if it only included 2 different types of credit accounts?

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@Anonymous remember mix has more than one scoring metric you also have the revolver:loan ratio, Number of bankcards, ect... mix is not just the Diversity Metric.

I have no doubt another loan would probably put TT in the excellent range. 

yes to both of the questions you posed. To get excellent in credit mix, you probably only need 4 accounts 3 revolvers and 1 loan. What is @Anonymous 's? But once you have five or six revolvers you need a second loan, imo. 

as to the second question, yeah if the ratio were correct. 

and I wouldn't say that not having a loan is costing him points, but he has an opportunity to earn more points. He's leaving some on the table. 

TT, my counts are strange too, especially TU.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

To get excellent in credit mix, you probably only need for accounts three revolvers and a loan. What is @Anonymous 's? But once you have five or six revolvers you need a second loan, imo. 

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'Very Good' for Credit Mix with 1 closed SSL and 2 recently opened revolving credit card accounts. (AoORA / AoYRA 1mo, AoOA 1yr 1mo)

It's been this way ever since, even after adding 2 more bank-issued credit cards. I started with 'FAIR' for Credit Mix with just a single SSL on file.

[Anonymous]

@Anonymous Wonder if you need a fifth card or a second loan? because number of revolvers/bankcards is definitely a scoring Metric and we know you have diversity covered and you don't seem to be too far off on number of revolvers or ratio. 

Edit: I bet the addition of your mortgage loan will make it excellent!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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yes to both of the questions you posed. To get excellent in credit mix, you probably only need for accounts three revolvers and a loan. What is @Anonymous 's? But once you have five or six revolvers you need a second loan, imo. 

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But didn't we already conclude from others that they did not have "excellent" (only VG or something lesser) when they had a loan and a bunch of revolvers?  I think SJ was one of them.

[Thomas_Thumb]

I suspect 3, possibly 4, types of accounts are need for mix to be exceptional. Installment loans (1-3 below) can be open or closed to affect mix. However, from what I have read open accounts (charge cards), revolving accounts and possibly lines of credit must be open. I have 3 types of accounts (1,4 and 5) and a mix rating of Vey Good. I still think there might be total account QTY thresholds as well.

Anyone have an Exceptional rating with under 10 accounts? If so, please list them and open/closed status for reference.

Not sure how many types of accounts Fico recognizes. Below are some categories that come to mind

1) Mortgage loans

2) Auto loans

3) Student loans & Share Secure loans (SSL)

4) Charge cards (open accounts with 1 month terms)

5) Credit cards (revolving accounts)

6) HELOC and PLOC

It is unclear to me where home equity loans (HEL) would fall.

[Anonymous]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

I suspect 3, possibly 4, types of accounts are need for mix to be exceptional. Installment loans (1-3 below) can be open or closed to affect mix. However, from what I have read open accounts (charge cards), revolving accounts and possibly lines of credit must be open. I have 3 types of accounts (1,4 and 5) and a mix rating of Vey Good. I still think there might be total account QTY thresholds as well.

Anyone have an Exceptional rating with under 10 accounts? If so, please list them and open/closed status for reference.

Not sure how many types of accounts Fico recognizes. Below are some categories that come to mind

1) Mortgage loans

2) Auto loans

3) Student loans & Share Secure loans (SSL)

4) Charge cards (open accounts with 1 month terms)

5) Credit cards (revolving accounts)

6) HELOC and PLOC

It is unclear to me where home equity loans (HEL) would fall.

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HELOC is a type of Revolving Account, according to the myFICO Credit Education section (scroll to 'Types of Credit Accounts'):

What Does Credit Mix Mean?

@Anonymousreported an Exceptional rating for Credit Mix with "10 open accounts that are all revolvers (9 CCs, 1 CLOC) and 1 closed installment". Permalink

@Caardvarkreported Exceptional with 9 open accounts. Permalink (scroll down 3 posts for the mention of 9 open accounts)

Since I had 'Very Good' with 1 closed installment and either 2 or 4 open bankcards, some number of revolving accounts between 5 and 8

( [5,8] interval ) might also work with/without the addition of an open or closed installment loan.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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yes to both of the questions you posed. To get excellent in credit mix, you probably only need for accounts three revolvers and a loan. What is @Anonymous 's? But once you have five or six revolvers you need a second loan, imo. 

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But didn't we already conclude from others that they did not have "excellent" (only VG or something lesser) when they had a loan and a bunch of revolvers?  I think SJ was one of them.

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Once I added my first installment loan, a reindeer games Alliant SSL loan, I moved up from "Very Good" in credit mix to "Exceptional", and have been there ever since. For most of the time, I've had either one open installment loan or no open installment loan.

[Anonymous]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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Once I added my first installment loan, a reindeer games Alliant SSL loan, I moved up from "Very Good" in credit mix to "Exceptional", and have been there ever since. For most of the time, I've had either one open installment loan or no open installment loan.

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Understood.  So it appears then that one can grab an exceptional with just 2 types of credit as originally believed, but in order to do so one must have more than just a few accounts (say 9+).  Does that sound like a fair assessment?  In the references that Cassie provided of members with exceptional ratings, all of them had 2+ types of different accounts (open or closed) on their CR.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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Once I added my first installment loan, a reindeer games Alliant SSL loan, I moved up from "Very Good" in credit mix to "Exceptional", and have been there ever since. For most of the time, I've had either one open installment loan or no open installment loan.

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Understood.  So it appears then that one can grab an exceptional with just 2 types of credit as originally believed, but in order to do so one must have more than just a few accounts (say 9+).  Does that sound like a fair assessment?  In the references that Cassie provided of members with exceptional ratings, all of them had 2+ types of different accounts (open or closed) on their CR.

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I don't know that, because I pointed out above that there are several types of revolving credit in my profile which Thomas_Thumb I believe does not have:

1. PLOC's : 7 open and 2 closed

2. Store cards : 2 closed