Inquiry Master Thread - understanding inquiries and how the affect your credit score

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Inquiry lab rat checking in with a curious update.

I apped and was approved for a new account on 3/3. EX charged me 7 points on that same day, and classified it as an INQ. No indication of a new account point deduction, only an INQ.

On 3/17, the account first reported to the bureaus. 

EX: no change

EQ: -3 for a new account

TU: no change

I wondered if it might require 30 days for TU to recognize the new account and then charge me some point deduction. Nothing

For background, EQ consistently reports highest score. 0 INQs.

TU is consistently my lowest score. 2 scorable INQs; both from CLIs. 4 others fall off later this year; 2 CLI related, 2 approved apps that I did not take as new accounts, and which never indicated a score change at 1 year for either an INQ drop or a new account 1 year aging....

I understand the EX hit. 7 points, perhaps a combination of the INQ and new account penalty, but they only report the INQ. Whatever.

I understand the EQ hit. 3 points for a new account. OK, whatever.

I do not understand no TU hit. But I am not complaining, I simply do not understand it.

For scorecard experts, here is a question:

-are scorecard assignments made and determined by file (my file) or by bureau? That is, do I have a different assignment for EX, EQ and TU and for new credit, is it driven and determined by INQs or new accounts or both?

I could understand that there may be a difference across a day or 2 as events are captured and calculated by each bureau.

But once all 3 bureaus are using the same data following a change, is your credit profile exposed to the same or a different scorecard? I mean weeks after a change (such as new or now unscorable INQ; new or aged new account; and after 365 days or 12 months or 1st of the month rules that are unique to each bureau), and once all of the data is the same (with the exception of the bureau on which the INQ was charged)...

I have INQ differences between the 3 bureaus. Beyond that, the account open dates, credit limits, credit usage, closed account data are all the same. Mine is a thick, old, clean (yes, there is a "dusty"(my term of choice) vs "dirty" (no pub records, lates, or BKs) profile, but yes,  the difference between bureaus is in INQs, and thereby, in which the new account was initially charged.

EQ: 0 INQs scorable or reported. EQ is usually my highest F8 score by ~15 points.

EX: 4 INQs scorable, 1 additional INQ is reported that falls of Dec 2020. EX is usually my middle score, and is the bureau that gets my INQs.

TU: 2 INQs scorable, 4 additional INQs are reported that fall off by Nov 2020. TU is usually my lowest score, 5-10 points lower than EX.

So 15 points is less than a 3% scoring difference (F8, 850-300=550; 100/550=.1818 value of a point on a 100 point scale; 15*.1818=2.7%). Not worth quibbling about; for me it is a curiousity - something that I want to try to better understand.

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@Anonymous Ok, you have missed some of my teaching. Let me refresh you, when you apply and there's a hard pull, your inquiry points are deducted immediately if points are charged.

Therefore when you took the inquiry the 7 points was most likely for the inquiry and maybe some other change going on in your file. There can be no new account penalty until a new account REPORTS to the bureau. That does not happen the same day that you apply. It may take 30 days.

With American Express and some issuers, it may be up to 90 days. But when the new account reports is when you take the new account hit as a result of scorecard reassignment, IF and ONLY if, you do not have a revolver under 12 months. If you do, the only change can be due to AAOA

So, when this reported and you lost 3 points at one bureau and none at another, that was not a new account penalty, as you had a revolver under 12 months. That, if it was related to the new account, was due to a change in AAOA. (For others, a increase could abe due to reduced utilization as a result of increased TCL.)

OK the scorecard is nothing but an algorithm, there's a preliminary algorithm that determines scorecard when your data is fed into it and then it feeds it to the appropriate algorithm (scorecard). So no, the bureau doesn't pick your scorecard the fico algorithm does.

Sorry I've got to go do something real quick, I'll respond again in a minute if I missed anything and also to your following post.

[Anonymous]

@Anonymous I’m pretty sure I explained how scorecard assignment takes place in a prior post in this thread. First it decides clean or dirty. If clean it then moves to thick or thin. Then it moves to aged or non-aged. Then last it determines whether you have a revolver under 12 months of age. Those four elements determine your scorecard, if your profile is clean.

Common wisdom says you are clean if you have nothing worse than one 30 day late. Common wisdom says you are thick if you have 5 or 6 accounts, (open and closed counts). Aged goes from AoOA. We don’t know the exact threshold, it’s been theorized from 10 to 15 to more years. The one thing we do know is the threshold for youngest revolver is 12 months.

All this is based on version 8 and does not necessarily apply to other versions except for the scorecard schema. Thresholds may be different among versions.

Also to answer one of your prior questions, each bureau has their algorithm tweaked slightly on certain metrics, so you will have a slightly different score even if the data is 100% the same among bureaus, which is not typical. Usually there are slight differences.

Inquiries have nothing to do with scorecard assignment but they do influence the signal strength of other metrics.

Inquiries return the points at 365 days assuming it doesn’t fall within a bin. The point award for scorecard change comes when your youngest revolver is 12 months old on the first of the month. If the data is the same among the three bureaus, so is the scorecard.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

One more table.

The 3 main scores and 25 subscores with top 3 negative reason codes.

Too many cards. >10. Check.

Heavy use of available credit. 3% utilization. Um, check, I guess.

Short credit history. >20 years. Um, check again, I guess. Again.

No recent mortage. Paid one off last year.  Never mind...

It is interesting to examine the reason code similarities and differences, and the priority progression of each score.

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Too many cards comes around number 15/16. 

Nothing wrong with 3% utilization aggregate. What is your highest individually?

Short credit history seems to come from either AAoA, AAOIA, or AAoRA or maybe some combination. AoOA is irrelevant to it. 

To go over your codes: IMHO

1-inquiries,

2-literal,

3-this is too many (3-5?) new accounts/revolvers within a certain period of time (12 months?),

4-jury is still out,

5-missing bonus points due to no paid down loan,

6-theorized above,

7-revolver under 12 months of age (on Version 8),

8-AAORA,

9-explained above,

10-literal. 

[Anonymous]

@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Heavy use of available credit. 3% utilization. Um, check, I guess.

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Nice tracking with those 2 posts!

That 'Heavy use' reason has to be tied to dollar amounts somehow, possibly in combination with 'number of accounts with a balance'.

See here for my reported reason shifts between $539 and $1214.99. Revelate started that thread with some interesting data concerning EX individual utilization.

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Hey @Anonymous 

Both debt $$ and Utilization matter. I had a recent test of that.

The free MyFICO score estimator tool asks 11 questions (maybe more on one's situation) to estimate a score without a direct examination of your credit report. See below.

Question 6 lists $$ breakpoints. These thresholds appears to line up with my credit profile and scorecard.

My CC debt dollars went from just over $10K to just under $10K, for which I earned 7-10 points bureau dependent.

When my CC debt dollars again cracked $10K, I saw a symmetric drop of 7-10 points.

I have no intimate knowledge of whether the Q6 breakpoints are static or dynamic values, nor whether their sensitivity varies by credit report, scorecard, and profile. I hope that someone with more depth in that area can comment.

Q1 - how many cards you have: never had a card, 1, 2-4, 5+

Q2 - age of first card (AoOA): <6M, 6M-2Y, 2-4Y, 4-5Y, 5-8Y, 8-10Y, 10-15Y, 15-20Y, >20Y

Q2a - age of first loan: <6M, 6M-2Y, 2-5Y, 5-10Y, 10-15Y, 15-20Y, >20Y

Q3 - # of card/loans you applied in last year (inquiries): 0, 1 , 2 , 3-5, 6 or more

Q4 - Recency of newest card or loan (AoYA / AoYRA): <3M, 3-6M, >6M

Q5 - # of cards/loans with balance: 0-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9 or more

Q6 - Total balance (less mortgage) of cards and loans: only mortgage, <$500, $500-999, $1000-4999, $5000-9999, $10K-20K, >$20K

Q7 - Last time missed a loan or card payment (delinquency): never, past 3M, 3-6M, 6M-1Y, 1-2Y, 2-3Y, 3-4Y, >4Y

Q8 - # currently past due accounts: 0, 1, 2+

Q9 - % of total limit do card balances represent (AGG card UT): never had a card, 0-9%, 10-19%, 20-29%, 30-39%, 40-49%, 50-69%, 70-89%, 90-99%, >100%

Q10: In last 10 years, any BK, repossession or collections (clean/dirty): yes, no

[Anonymous]

There's definitely something to it, but I don't think the breakpoints have been confirmed.

Apparently You are more than an inquiry lab rat, lol, you are charting territory we haven't nailed down, I think. (Correct me if I'm wrong more experienced members.)

BUT, the simulator asks those questions for a reason, so I think it's a good clue, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we’ll get lucky and Cassie will do some more testing and nail down the thresholds for us. 😉

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Heavy use of available credit. 3% utilization. Um, check, I guess.

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Nice tracking with those 2 posts!

That 'Heavy use' reason has to be tied to dollar amounts somehow, possibly in combination with 'number of accounts with a balance'.

See here for my reported reason shifts between $539 and $1214.99. Revelate started that thread with some interesting data concerning EX individual utilization.

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Hey @Anonymous 

Both debt $$ and Utilization matter. I had a recent test of that.

The free MyFICO score estimator tool asks 11 questions (maybe more on one's situation) to estimate a score without a direct examination of your credit report. See below.

...

Question 6 lists $$ breakpoints. These thresholds appears to line up with my credit profile and scorecard.

...

Q6 - Total balance (less mortgage) of cards and loans: only mortgage, <$500, $500-999, $1000-4999, $5000-9999, $10K-20K, >$20K

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That is exactly why I thought going under $500 would cause some score/reason changes. Your 3% aggregate util is my 10%.

I'm letting 4% util report on all 4 cards for May. In June I can see what happens with a drop below $500.

I think you'll find this post by @HeavenOhio to be very interesting: Effect of low balances on my scores  

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Heavy use of available credit. 3% utilization. Um, check, I guess.

---

Nice tracking with those 2 posts!

That 'Heavy use' reason has to be tied to dollar amounts somehow, possibly in combination with 'number of accounts with a balance'.

See here for my reported reason shifts between $539 and $1214.99. Revelate started that thread with some interesting data concerning EX individual utilization.

---

Hey @Anonymous 

Both debt $$ and Utilization matter. I had a recent test of that.

The free MyFICO score estimator tool asks 11 questions (maybe more on one's situation) to estimate a score without a direct examination of your credit report. See below.

...

Question 6 lists $$ breakpoints. These thresholds appears to line up with my credit profile and scorecard.

...

Q6 - Total balance (less mortgage) of cards and loans: only mortgage, <$500, $500-999, $1000-4999, $5000-9999, $10K-20K, >$20K

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That is exactly why I thought going under $500 would cause some score/reason changes. Your 3% aggregate util is my 10%.

I'm letting 4% util report on all 4 cards for May. In June I can see what happens with a drop below $500.

I think you'll find this post by @HeavenOhio to be very interesting: Effect of low balances on my scores  

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@Anonymous helpful indeed. Many thanks! So AZEO, with 1 at > $1<$500 AND <3% AGG UT, correct? per @Anonymous post "All Zero Penalty to AZEO"