@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:Are you sure re: Alliant?
I apparently was an idiot before and utterly missed this or maybe it took some time to refresh but my Scheduled Transfers has the following which looks just ducky:
10/21/2018 Savings Account - S01 Share Secured Loan - L01 Monthly $9.16 Edit | Delete Hey Revelate. Quick question.
Were you able to cancel your autopay on the Alliant SSL? Or was it okay to leave it and it won't make the next autopay payment until the date listed as 10/21/2018?
Mine won't allow me to cancel autopay online, it wants me to call. I would rather not call. I won't bother if the date listed is the actual date they will autopay. I don't want it to pay itself off in 4 months. My next scheduled transfer date lists 2/15/19 it was originally 10/15/2015 before paying it down to under 10%.
Thanks, great info, great thread. I will add my data to it after my loan reports.
As I understand it you have to cancel it or it makes the autopay anyway; someone else tested that one. I cancelled mine ASAP after that hah. Their autopay system isn't very well setup TBH.
That's wierd was no issue for me, maybe because mine was older than 6 months at that point? You probably will get that because they'll want to modify the loan rate (which you don't care about on such a small balance, think stated don't sign up for it since playing reindeer games and it just complicates things but meh, we beat it into people's heads that APR matters and such it's hard to get across haha).
Making the post here for data purposes, mortgage just reported on Chase, and the inquiries and AAOA change already happened so while this isn't a perfect datapoint it's a lot better than I was hoping for as everything reported beforehand.
Anyway mortgages count as standard loans, same weight as auto loans or secured share loans even under the FICO 8 model; interesting to see that a dinky $500 loan from Alliant carries the exact same weight from a FICO perspective as a mortgage does, but such is life in our credit universe haha.
Also to answer the obvious question, the fact FICO 8 moved and 04 didn't identically to the rest of our testing and within a few points of my earlier datapoints suggests it wasn't a rebucketing based on having a mortgage or anything else and likely confirmed as my old friend "The remaining balance on your mortgage or non-mortgage installment loans is too high" is now back on my report in the #3 slot.
Guess the story here is if you have a mortgage don't bother playing the games... I'm going to have to take out something like 40K worth of loans for a 6 point bump on the likely initial breakpoint at either 80 or 70%... yeah, I don't think so. Anyway score changes, supporting data 2/13 cards reporting a balance (which produced no change on FICO 8 just like 2/9 did previously), <1% utilization and clear 2 years AAOA on all three dates, so not a crappy datapoint, got clean enough I guess as it turned out.
| Equifax FICO scores | 7/4/15 | 10/3/15 | 10/8/15 |
| FICO 8 | 725 | 722 | 701 |
| FICO 04 | 693 | 693 | |
| FICO 8 Auto | 728 | 711 | |
| FICO 04 Auto | 692 | 690 | |
| FICO 8 Bankcard | 742 | 709 | |
| FICO 04 Bankcard | 720 | 720 |
Somewhat interesting, my Vantage Score went even past it's prior absurd levels before I started on the morrtage process and app spree (and took 40 points of damage in that): +47 points from 728 -> 775. Back to being gold-plated on Vantage, go me!
Anyway think this takes away any shot I had at 800 in 2 years, but I should still make 760 so meh, w/e. Definitely time to update the sig once EX/TU give me new FICO 8's too.
@Revelate wrote:Making the post here for data purposes, mortgage just reported on Chase, and the inquiries and AAOA change already happened so while this isn't a perfect datapoint it's a lot better than I was hoping for as everything reported beforehand.
Anyway mortgages count as standard loans, same weight as auto loans or secured share loans even under the FICO 8 model; interesting to see that a dinky $500 loan from Alliant carries the exact same weight from a FICO perspective as a mortgage does, but such is life in our credit universe haha.
Also to answer the obvious question, the fact FICO 8 moved and 04 didn't identically to the rest of our testing and within a few points of my earlier datapoints suggests it wasn't a rebucketing based on having a mortgage or anything else and likely confirmed as my old friend "The remaining balance on your mortgage or non-mortgage installment loans is too high" is now back on my report in the #3 slot.
Guess the story here is if you have a mortgage don't bother playing the games... I'm going to have to take out something like 40K worth of loans for a 6 point bump on the likely initial breakpoint at either 80 or 70%... yeah, I don't think so. Anyway score changes, supporting data 2/13 cards reporting a balance (which produced no change on FICO 8 just like 2/9 did previously), <1% utilization and clear 2 years AAOA on all three dates, so not a crappy datapoint, got clean enough I guess as it turned out.
Equifax FICO scores 7/4/15 10/3/15 10/8/15 FICO 8 725 722 701 FICO 04 693 693 FICO 8 Auto 728 711 FICO 04 Auto 692 690 FICO 8 Bankcard 742 709 FICO 04 Bankcard 720 720
Somewhat interesting, my Vantage Score went even past it's prior absurd levels before I started on the morrtage process and app spree (and took 40 points of damage in that): +47 points from 728 -> 775. Back to being gold-plated on Vantage, go me!
Anyway think this takes away any shot I had at 800 in 2 years, but I should still make 760 so meh, w/e. Definitely time to update the sig once EX/TU give me new FICO 8's too.
I've been following this thread since it started. I appreciate the effort and the reporting.
It so happens that my nearly 3 y.o. mortgage is going to cross over the 80% threshold with
next month's payment. I will report when I get scores after the fact. It seems like my mortgage
holder (Citi) doesn't report every month and reports the end of the month, not after the due date,
so it may be a couple months to see if I get any bump. I'm not sure I'm a good candidate to
detect the break point though. My current FICO8 range from 841-849 and there may be other
factors holding my scores static (credit cards less than 2 years old). I have no other installment
loans and a relatively old but thin file.
I have used a shared secured loan for my niece, opened at NFCU. It seems like NCFU allows
payments differently than the CU's already discussed in this thread. I can pay individual payments
ahead, 1 at a time, for as far out as desired. As each payment posts, it releases the amount of the
payment from the secured account. It takes ~3 days for the payment amount to be released to repeat
the process. Unfortunately I didn't fund the account with any excess and the payments are made from
the $50 account opening bonus, which are the only free funds in the account now. If the account had
extra in it, it would be simple to make all the payments, one at a time, in one sitting. NCFU also allows
up to 15 year terms on a share secured loan, although I would guess the minimum loan amount for
15 years is probably high. I might look into getting a 15 year for myself and immediately paying it
down to ~5% if everything works as well for my niece as it appears. Her loan is 5 year term and is
6 months old. It is at ~40% of the original principle and the next payment due is pushed off to Nov 2017.
It gets 2 payments a week entered in as it takes that long for each payment to release funds for the next.
We didn't track the benefit to her FICO very well, but she seems to have gained ~40 points from it on a
low 600's FICO. Maybe there is a little more when it crosses ~20% in a couple months.
A question I would have for the gallery about my mortgage ? My mortgage is a 7-1 ARM and has just
over 4 years till first reset. I took the 7-1ARM with the intention of having it paid or close to it when the rate
resets. I now see a potential FICO strategy for the reset date. When the rates reset, I believe that the required
payments reset based on the new interest rate, the outstanding principle and the remaining term (23 years).
It could be useful to pay the mortgage down to some very low principle anticipating the reset and when it does,
the payments will reset to a very low amount and the mortgage with continue open for the next 23 years ? Similar
to the strategy of paying a shared secured loan down immediately then letting it percolate on the CR's for
FICO scoring. Anyone know if it could work like this ?
+
850 FICO8 since 2015, Thanks MyFICO - 5+ years since last HP
@Anonymous wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:So from the data presented, it appears that a large mortgage acts like a capacitor that stabilizes score [relative to impact of other loans/loan balances].
Could mortgages also stabilize impact of credit card utilization? Credit reports include a summary factor for: Total balance CC+installment+ mortgage)/Total credit line (CCs credit limits+installment loan+mortgage).
Clearly changes in credit card UT% have a much greater impact on some profiles - and the stability does not appear to correlate directly to score card assignments.
Yes. A friend of mine shows up to 46% utilization in her files due to the HELOC she uses for repairs on her rental units. Her scores are all over 825, with the highest being 841. She has a very long history, over 30 tradelines reporting, including multiple open mortgage loans.
Ah, HELOC's are a special beast I'm afraid. Above some level they're counted as installment, but below that threshold they're counted as revolving. That line never got published but based on illecs and some others seemed like it was around 30-35K but it's anyone's guess.
Installment loans don't buffer revolving utilization to my knowledge, entirely seperate calculations in my experience. While I think a mortgage is great from a UW perspective (hey, clearly defined asset they can go after if you flake) from a FICO one not so much at least under the current generation of models.
@bada_bing wrote:
I've been following this thread since it started. I appreciate the effort and the reporting.
It so happens that my nearly 3 y.o. mortgage is going to cross over the 80% threshold with
next month's payment. I will report when I get scores after the fact. It seems like my mortgage
holder (Citi) doesn't report every month and reports the end of the month, not after the due date,
so it may be a couple months to see if I get any bump. I'm not sure I'm a good candidate to
detect the break point though. My current FICO8 range from 841-849 and there may be other
factors holding my scores static (credit cards less than 2 years old). I have no other installment
loans and a relatively old but thin file.
I have used a shared secured loan for my niece, opened at NFCU. It seems like NCFU allows
payments differently than the CU's already discussed in this thread. I can pay individual payments
ahead, 1 at a time, for as far out as desired. As each payment posts, it releases the amount of the
payment from the secured account. It takes ~3 days for the payment amount to be released to repeat
the process. Unfortunately I didn't fund the account with any excess and the payments are made from
the $50 account opening bonus, which are the only free funds in the account now. If the account had
extra in it, it would be simple to make all the payments, one at a time, in one sitting. NCFU also allows
up to 15 year terms on a share secured loan, although I would guess the minimum loan amount for
15 years is probably high. I might look into getting a 15 year for myself and immediately paying it
down to ~5% if everything works as well for my niece as it appears. Her loan is 5 year term and is
6 months old. It is at ~40% of the original principle and the next payment due is pushed off to Nov 2017.
It gets 2 payments a week entered in as it takes that long for each payment to release funds for the next.
We didn't track the benefit to her FICO very well, but she seems to have gained ~40 points from it on a
low 600's FICO. Maybe there is a little more when it crosses ~20% in a couple months.
A question I would have for the gallery about my mortgage ? My mortgage is a 7-1 ARM and has just
over 4 years till first reset. I took the 7-1ARM with the intention of having it paid or close to it when the rate
resets. I now see a potential FICO strategy for the reset date. When the rates reset, I believe that the required
payments reset based on the new interest rate, the outstanding principle and the remaining term (23 years).
It could be useful to pay the mortgage down to some very low principle anticipating the reset and when it does,
the payments will reset to a very low amount and the mortgage with continue open for the next 23 years ? Similar
to the strategy of paying a shared secured loan down immediately then letting it percolate on the CR's for
FICO scoring. Anyone know if it could work like this ?
That's awesome news regarding your niece! Alliant releases funds but it's not 1:1 with the payment, it's basically 2X outstanding principal kept in reserve when I kicked it forward: my $43 has $86 in the secured account now but that's a neat feature on the NFCU one.
Regarding your mortgage, I don't know; however, based on my data, if your servicing provider has pushed the due date out into the future with your payments then I don't see any reason it wouldn't work like you suggest as a mortgage is a simple interest loan in literally all cases, and even a loan reset to 6% or whatever on a balance of $50 or similar, well I'd take that if I could with my own $250K mortgage, just saying 
.
If you were planning to prepay it there's no harm in trying, worst case you write the final check early as planned previously.
Well...It's time for an update...
I do not believe that my reports can be used to discover the break points for installment loans. The iron fist of EQ and TU are keeping me from gaining any points because I have 1 tax lien and 1 released tax lien on each report. My EX is clean and has 1 closed CC circa 1987 on it and it is doing just fine. I can't believe the difference in the score change between EQ, TU vs EX.
A few things that happened to all my reports in the month of September:
My youngest card turned 1 year old.
My last 2 inquiries turned 1 year old.
I paid down my 2 share secured installment loans to less than 30% remaining balance.
I have two CCs reporting a very small balance.
All this happened and I can't get EQ or TU to budge!
I pulled a 3 report score today to see how I'm standing. Can somebody please explain how I can have so much movement on EX and almost nothing on EQ and TU?
Here's a spreadsheet that shows the difference in my scores for the last few months:
Youngest account = 1 year, no change in my data.
Which bureaus were the inquiries on?
You get wider swings with minor changes when you're clean vs. dirty, but I think your data is actually more conclusive that 30% isn't a breakpoint: you don't have to look much further than my own score changes where I absolutely have a tax lien, a collection, and payment history deliquencies and I got movement. Is everything reporting the way you expect it if you look at CK or whatever?