@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly. <--100% Spot-On
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see. <--Again, Spot-On
Occam's Razor applies
The CSR was just like every other CSR we deal with, and you weren't under the second magic breakpoint. So pay down to the number or better that everyone else has found works for them.
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
Play to win bud
+1
I'll be sharing my own Alliant CU SSL results/differences from a recent new statement balance affect just as soon as i get a FICO update from one of my lenders next week or so. I expect something is changed for the better since 7% reported with the SSL. Since it reported thru Alliant's portal, Synchrony easily approved a pair of really nice CLI's on a couple cards this week where before it's been denial. They only do that when there is some marked/marginal increase to my TU scores.
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
I paid it down to $77, or 15.4%, thinking that that would be enough to give me points, and also help me spot other breakpoints, like 9%.
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
So you're sure she was wrong?
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly.
Which is what, 9%? I've paid it down to 9% so next month should prove or disprove that.
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see.
Is 9% good enough?
Occam's Razor applies
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
It was #2
Play to win bud
OK OK I'll try to be strong
@CreditMagic7 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly. <--100% Spot-On
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see. <--Again, Spot-On
Occam's Razor applies
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
Play to win bud
+1
I'll be sharing my own Alliant CU SSL results/differences from a recent new statement balance affect just as soon as i get a FICO update from one of my lenders next week or so. I expect something is changed for the better since 7% reported with the SSL. Since it reported thru Alliant's portal, Synchrony easily approved a pair of really nice CLI's on a couple cards this week where before it's been denial. They only do that when there is some marked/marginal increase to my TU scores.
OK so I've paid it down to 9%, should I leave it at that for next month?
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@CreditMagic7 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly. <--100% Spot-On
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see. <--Again, Spot-On
Occam's Razor applies
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
Play to win bud
+1
I'll be sharing my own Alliant CU SSL results/differences from a recent new statement balance affect just as soon as i get a FICO update from one of my lenders next week or so. I expect something is changed for the better since 7% reported with the SSL. Since it reported thru Alliant's portal, Synchrony easily approved a pair of really nice CLI's on a couple cards this week where before it's been denial. They only do that when there is some marked/marginal increase to my TU scores.
OK so I've paid it down to 9%, should I leave it at that for next month?
It should be fine, there's been some reports that the algorithm may be rounding up on the calculation so maybe 8.95% is better (hard to say what the algorithm is doing honestly without very very explicit testing which I can't do with my mortgage-sized problem when it comes to installment ratios).
We've had dozens of forum members have success with this, you're the one outlier so far but everyone else just paid it straight down to magic number land, whereas I greatly appreciate your testing the breakpoint and it does look like it's 10% now.
FWIW for minimizing interest and since autopay shouldn't be on anyway, even paying it down to $20 or $10 is acceptable even if most of us did $44 or whatever. Think my loan is at $44.70 now, not that it makes any difference with my 250k mortgage balance hanging over my report.
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@CreditMagic7 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly. <--100% Spot-On
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see. <--Again, Spot-On
Occam's Razor applies
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
Play to win bud
+1
I'll be sharing my own Alliant CU SSL results/differences from a recent new statement balance affect just as soon as i get a FICO update from one of my lenders next week or so. I expect something is changed for the better since 7% reported with the SSL. Since it reported thru Alliant's portal, Synchrony easily approved a pair of really nice CLI's on a couple cards this week where before it's been denial. They only do that when there is some marked/marginal increase to my TU scores.
OK so I've paid it down to 9%, should I leave it at that for next month?
It should be fine, there's been some reports that the algorithm may be rounding up on the calculation so maybe 8.95% is better (hard to say what the algorithm is doing honestly without very very explicit testing which I can't do with my mortgage-sized problem when it comes to installment ratios).
We've had dozens of forum members have success with this, you're the one outlier so far but everyone else just paid it straight down to magic number land, whereas I greatly appreciate your testing the breakpoint and it does look like it's 10% now.
FWIW for minimizing interest and since autopay shouldn't be on anyway, even paying it down to $20 or $10 is acceptable even if most of us did $44 or whatever. Think my loan is at $44.70 now, not that it makes any difference with my 250k mortgage balance hanging over my report.
Mine is at $44.17
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Sorry but the reindeer game isn't working out for me, and I'm about to stop playing. It's a game I can't win.
1. When I had no open installment loan Experian was penalizing me for "having no recent installment activity".
2. When I opened my 3rd share secured loan and immediately paid it down to 15.4%, Experian changed to penalizing me for having too high an installment balance.
3. I decided to use my free 10 minutes with a credit advisor at Experian.com to sort it out.
4. He said to me that it's a mistake; that with instalment loans 80% is "very good", and 39% is "exceptional". And that since mine was paid down to 15.4% it shouldn't be showing up as a risk factor.
5. He transferred me to Experian consumer relations and told me to tell them that the Credit Advisor had said the installment loan risk factor was a mistake, and that I'm disputing it.
6. The consumer representative at Experian claimed that one can't dispute the way the FICO 8 model is computing risk factors. She claims that it's interpreting my balance as high based on the fact that it's a 48 month loan which is only 1 month old, and that it's disregarding the fact that the balance is down to $77.
I give up. If the loan is creating a fictional negative risk factor, what good is it? I don't want to wait a year for my scores to improve a little.
Why are you not just paying it down to $20 or whatever?
1) Experian CSR's don't know the algorithm any better than we do; actually, they probably know it far less. Same as any other CSR.
2) You get that reason code until you get under the second breakpoint, that I can confirm explicitly.
3) It doesn't sound like you were under the second breakpoint at 15.4%, so pay it down to 5.4% or similarly and see.
Occam's Razor applies
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850, the order they are listed in matters, if it was #3 or #4 on the list those can mostly be ignored anyway in terms of major score impact. If it was #1 or #2, ugh, but we know for a fact if you have no open installment loans it is a straight FICO 8 penalty.
Play to win bud
Agree with what you say - except the score threshold for reason statements. The magic # for Fico Classic is 800 [at least for me on Fico 04 and for CAPTOOL on Fico 08]. I also have zeroed in on the magic number for enhanced Fico 04 scores. It is 850 for me.
I have sufficient data from 3B reports crossing boundries to verify the threshold with certainty for my profile. (YMMV based on scorecard).
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:Agree with what you say - except the score threshold for reason statements. The magic # for Fico Classic is 800 [at least for me on Fico 04 and for CAPTOOL on Fico 08]. I also have zeroed in on the magic number for enhanced Fico 04 scores. It is 850 for me.
I have sufficient data from 3B reports crossing boundries to verify the threshold with certainty for my profile. (YMMV based on scorecard).
Interesting, I thought android01 and others had found they kept getting reasons their score wasn't higher until 850. That actually could have changed but I do appreciate your information on that! FICO 04 that makes sense anyway if it doesn't have to be max since "perfect" there was 818.
Also they have to tell you SOMETHING until you get to approximately 850
The notes on mine always vanish at 800 and above. Fico 8, anyway.
ETA: And they always come back when it drops back below 800, even if it's one stinking point below. 
