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Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

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Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

I'm seeing a large 20-35 point variation in my Experian Fico 2 scores (Fico 2 Mortgage, Fico 2 Auto and Fico 2 Bankcard) between now and August, despite my situation being very similar. I'm scratching my head trying to understand why. I'd love it if anyone had any insights. 

 

I am not seeing the same point difference with my Experian Fico 8 Scores or Experian Fico 9 Scores. All of these are almost identical between August and November. 

 

August 2019

Experian Fico 2 Mortgage = 754

Experian Fico 2 Auto = 740

Experian Fico 2 Bankcard = 753

 

November 2019

Experian Fico 2 Morgage = 735

Experian Fico 2 Auto = 704

Experian Fico 2 Bankcard = 721

 

In August, my total UTIL across all credit cards was 19%. Breaking that down into individual cards is Card 1 UTIL of 15%, Card 2 UTIL of 11%, Card 3 UTIL of 27% and Card 4 UTIL of 2%.

 

In November my total UTIL across all credit cards is 17%. Breaking that down into individual cards is Card 1 UTIL of 12%, Card 2 UTIL of 39%, Card 3 UTIL of 19% and Card 4 UTIL of 8%.

 

The level of debt is almost identical (I had some CLIs in that time, pushing the overal UTIL down).

 

I have had no late payments or negative actions on my accounts. Accounts are all paid on time, well over the minimum payment, although not in full. My only other debt is a personal loan which dropped from 90% UTIL to 80% UTIL between August and November, again with no late payments or negative remarks.

 

The only thing I can deduce is that for Experian Fico 2 Scores, individual card UTILs are way more important than overall UTIL. And that one card going over the 30% massively affected the scores. Any other thoughts?

 

 

Starting Score: 680
Current Score: 754
Goal Score: 775


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
EX8 = 754 EQ8 = 730 TU8 = 770
EX9 = 763 EQ9 = 762 TU9 = 754 . November 9, 2019
AooA = 4 years, 4 months. AAoA = 2 years, 1 month. AoYA = 12 months.
24 REPLIES 24
Established Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

Individual does play a larger role and you want to try to keep 30% or lower that one card going over 30 is probably what did the biggest trick for you.
















Message 2 of 25
Established Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

Or have you also added any inquiries or cards/accounts?!     That could play a role too if you did.
















Message 3 of 25
Valued Member

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

There have been no new cards/accounts or hard/soft pulls on my credit. The only thing that has changed in that time is the different UTILs on the cards.

Starting Score: 680
Current Score: 754
Goal Score: 775


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
EX8 = 754 EQ8 = 730 TU8 = 770
EX9 = 763 EQ9 = 762 TU9 = 754 . November 9, 2019
AooA = 4 years, 4 months. AAoA = 2 years, 1 month. AoYA = 12 months.
Message 4 of 25
Valued Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores


@ArrowClock15 wrote:

 

The level of debt is almost identical (I had some CLIs in that time, pushing the overal UTIL down).

 

[...]

 

The only thing I can deduce is that for Experian Fico 2 Scores, individual card UTILs are way more important than overall UTIL. And that one card going over the 30% massively affected the scores. Any other thoughts?


Individual utilization? Perhaps... but you mentioned CLIs - how high?

 

EXv2 has a very low limit (compared to other scoring models), where cards are excluded from the util calc.  It's somewhere between $26k and $30k.

 

Did one of your CLIs break through that threshold? If so, your total util (for EXv2 purposes) may have actually increased.

 

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:850 TU9:850 EX9:850
EQ5:809 TU4:789 EX2:819 - 2019-09-06
Message 5 of 25
Valued Member

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores


Individual utilization? Perhaps... but you mentioned CLIs - how high?

 

EXv2 has a very low limit (compared to other scoring models), where cards are excluded from the util calc.  It's somewhere between $26k and $30k.

 

Did one of your CLIs break through that threshold? If so, your total util (for EXv2 purposes) may have actually increased.

 


This is starting to make sense now. Card 1 did get a CLI up to $40K, but the CL was already above $30K in August. So, would likely have been excluded in August. Card 3 has a CL of $30K and that did not change between August and November. Probably it is also excluded. If the scores are based on Card 2 and Card 4 only, then that could easily explain why there is such a large drop in points. 

 

I didn't know that some of the scoring models excluded cards with high CLs. That's very interesting! Thanks! 

Starting Score: 680
Current Score: 754
Goal Score: 775


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
EX8 = 754 EQ8 = 730 TU8 = 770
EX9 = 763 EQ9 = 762 TU9 = 754 . November 9, 2019
AooA = 4 years, 4 months. AAoA = 2 years, 1 month. AoYA = 12 months.
Message 6 of 25
Valued Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores


@ArrowClock15 wrote:

This is starting to make sense now. Card 1 did get a CLI up to $40K, but the CL was already above $30K in August. So, would likely have been excluded in August. Card 3 has a CL of $30K and that did not change between August and November. Probably it is also excluded. If the scores are based on Card 2 and Card 4 only, then that could easily explain why there is such a large drop in points. 


Yep, that'll do it.  From the point of view of EX2, you increased both your total utilization and your highest individual utilization.

 


@ArrowClock15 wrote:

I didn't know that some of the scoring models excluded cards with high CLs. That's very interesting! Thanks! 


Current models (FICO 8, FICO 9) don't, but certain older ones do.

 

EX2 has the lowest threshold, but the other two "mortgage" FICOs, TU4 and EQ5 also have a threshold, generally believed to be at $35k.

 

This exclusion dates to the 90s, when they needed a way to separate revolving card limits from larger revolving HELOC limits.  Since then, limits on both cards and HELOCs have gone way up, but the hard-coded thresholds in the older scoring models haven't.  (Also, coding on reports for HELOCs is now much better, and separating them from cards no longer requires heuristics based on limits.)

 

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:850 TU9:850 EX9:850
EQ5:809 TU4:789 EX2:819 - 2019-09-06
Message 7 of 25
Valued Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

And no, IMHO, individual utilization is NOT more important. As BBS would say, aggregate utilization is king. But both definitely play a part. And as we have recently learned when you have two or more cards over 28% there seems to be an additional penalty and reason code of high usage.









(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated DEC'19.

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (aged/nonaged), AoYR-Age of Youngest Revolver (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/aged/new accounts, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just list whether you have any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AoYR and whether you have a loan on record.
For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment. please.
Message 8 of 25
Valued Member

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

I've paid down some of the debt on Card 2, which has just posted.

 

It takes my utilization on Card 2 to 28%. I've had a small uplift on points on my EX Fico 2 Bankcard. Both EX Fico 2 Mortgage and EX Fico 2 Auto remain unchanged. 

 

My EX Fico 2 Bankcard has increased tfrom 721 to 731.

My overall utilization across all 4 Cards has now dropped to 16%.

The overall level of debt across all 4 cards is now about $800 less than in August. 

 

I will presume that Card 1 and Card 3 are excluded from the calculation.

 

In August, the aggregate utilization across Card 2 and Card 4 was 6.8%. When I posted this question a few days ago, aggregate utilization was 27%. It is now 20%. 

 

Therefore, getting Card 2 down below the 30% level has had some effect, but, not a huge effect. Card 4 will post soon with a zero balance, taking the aggregate across both cards to 17%. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on the points. Then next month, both cards will be posting with a zero balance. So, i'm presuming my points will all come back.

 

One quick question: if Card 1 and Card 3 are excluded from the calculation for EX Fico 2 scores, does that mean I could get a penalty for both Card 2 and Card 4 reporting a zero balance? Or, will it still take into account that there is at least 1 card reporting a balance, even though that card is not used for the Fico 2 calculation?

 

 

Starting Score: 680
Current Score: 754
Goal Score: 775


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
EX8 = 754 EQ8 = 730 TU8 = 770
EX9 = 763 EQ9 = 762 TU9 = 754 . November 9, 2019
AooA = 4 years, 4 months. AAoA = 2 years, 1 month. AoYA = 12 months.
Message 9 of 25
Valued Contributor

Re: Large difference in Experian Fico 2 scores

That’s good card 2 made it to 28%. Yes Card one and three are excluded from EX2, as stated above.

Going from 27% to 20 is a non-event. I would not expect any points from that. Aggregate moving to 17% will also be a nonevent. So I don’t think that will be very interesting.

You need aggregate under 8.9%. (and I’m talking about cards 2 and 4, 1 and 3 do not count.) Next month when both cards report a zero balance, you’re probably going to wear the no revolving balance penalty. It cannot take into account something it is excluding.

You need aggregate under 8.9% (2 & 4) and you need one of those cards reporting a zero balance and the other reporting a nominal balance, if you want to optimize.









(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated DEC'19.

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (aged/nonaged), AoYR-Age of Youngest Revolver (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/aged/new accounts, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just list whether you have any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AoYR and whether you have a loan on record.
For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment. please.
Message 10 of 25
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