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Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

My wife and I, both 50+, until recently have lived intentionally, militantly credit-free.   Paid cash for vehicles and a small house.  About five years ago we traveled with a large group.  Without a CC we couldn't stay at the chosen hotel.  It was humiliating to have to borrow one!  We were also missing online buying, so we grudgingly agreed it was time to apply for a CC.   

 

I thought it would be a snap at my small bank.  It wasn't.  Banker suggested BoA.  There I was able to get a partially secured VISA with $99 security and a $500 limit.  That was all I needed so I didn't give credit another thought.  About 30 months ago we decided a car loan would be better than repairing beaters.  I didn't have the history for a bank loan, used Ford Credit.  The rate was high, but again this was all the credit I'd ever want so didn't give it another thought.  Got a pre-approved retail card offer last year and grabbed it for interest-free-for-six-months deals.   Tally=1 bank CC, 1 retail card, 1 installment loan.

 

With times getting hard, I knew my job could end any day.  My bank was offering vehicle re-fi at a low rate.  Lower payments would help if things got worse, so I talked to my banker and he said I had built enough history to apply.  Turned down.  Studied the rejection letter.  Public record?  What???  Collections????  No way!! 

 

So finally we pulled credit reports.  Five baddies on mine.  Three, including a tax lien, were laughable errors easily fixed leaving med collections of $38 showing on EX/EQ and another $300 just on EX, all five years old.  I think/thought I paid both in full to the OC within months after treatment.  Currently reported balances are a small fraction of the originals.  Proof these were paid off would be hard/impossible to locate now.  

 

When I first pulled my reports, FAKOs were @ 560-580-610.  Yesterday's FICOs were EQ=689 and TU=725.  Stunning!  (EX-FAKO is still under 600.)  In the meantime, I got laid off from my job as expected.  Out of work for three months and just found a new job last month.  Never missed a due date.  Continued to PIF on both cards.  Nothing slipped.

 

That's probably TMI, but it's background for my questions.  We've now jointly decided that we'd like to enter the magic kingdom of good credit.  Being 50+, we don't have decades to build slowly.  I got the VISA unsecured.  Asked for a CLI also but have to wait six months after security returned.  Asked for a CLI on retail card and was told the account isn't old enough yet.  No new hard inquries.    

 

Two choices before me now: 1) the normally recommended slow build-up steadily increasing scores    2) take a temporary hit applying for as much credit as I'll want in the foreseeable future--one good major CC with at least a $5000 limit, a vehicle trade-up, and the ability to borrow $8000 to $12,000 for home improvement projects.  Mindful of my age, it seems it might be better to take the hit ASAP?

 

Not sure how that period of unemployment and recent job change will affect chances of approval?

 

Closing the retail account would increase the average age of open accounts, but it would lower total available credit.  I PIF every month except when there's an interest-free promotional balance. 

 

I could pay off both CCs and keep the balance at next to $0, but I'm only using 14% now so that won't help much.  Increasing available credit would help a lot more?

 

I could dispute the remaining two collections, but don't want to risk bringing them forward or making them stand out more without receipts?

 

I could go to the bank for a re-fi  again.  Banker said at time of decline that if I got the public record and recent collections deleted he could probably get me approved but it would be another hard inquiry and I'm ready to trade up anyway.

 

I've been paying the current car loan in halves twice a month to get it paid off a little sooner.  Just saw on one credit report the "last payment made" is half of the regular payment amount.  Maybe that looks negative?  Should I start making single payments? 

 

Not interested in any sub-prime loans or secured CCs.  More than enough income to qualify for and easily handle payments on new debt goals. 

 

This all would have been easier back when credit was flowing like a swollen creek, but we missed that.  Any thoughts?

Message 1 of 11
10 REPLIES 10
Woolfman
Established Contributor

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

For my understanding Your average age of accounts doesnt go by only open or closed . Its all of them  So closing the store card isnt going to help in your AAOA at all . 

 

As far as going on an app spree . I would just apply for cards you want/need  and get it out of the way .

Message 2 of 11
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

I know the tune you are singing!

I am over 60 myself, and gave no attention to anything resembling credit scoring until about 6 years ago.  I have raised my FICO score over 150 points since that time, and it is all due to new awareness of what credit scoring is.  It is not about financial stability, income, job status, etc., but rather a view of how you have timely paid obligated credit in the past, and how much of your current credit you are currently using.  You need credit for a good FICO score.

If you did not have prior credit, FICO looks at you as a risk they cannot reasonably assess.

Not that you are necessarily a bad risk, just not one that they can assess.  Thus, low FICO score.  FICO is NOT a credit worthiness barometer, it is a risk of payment of existing debt thermometer.

 

The very first thing I would recommend, without hesitation, is to find a local credit union that you are eligible to join.  Start by opening both a checking and savings account with them.  Don’t immediately apply for credit.  Credit Unions universally offer the best service, and most competitive rates.  Most major CUs also offer sponsored, major credit cards at low rates, and great terms.  My CU Master Card, for example, has no charge for balance transers.  Most majors charge 3-4% up front.  Get in the door, and then use them to get you the best CC deal.

 

The rest is kinda obvious to one who knows how FICO works.

The ideal is to have three major bank cards.  Their CL is not critical to FICO.  FICO does not score your CL, only your % util of that limit.  Under 10% util of each card gives max FICO results.

Never, ever pay late.  The absolute kiss of death to FICO scoring.

Pay all old debts.  If paid, FICO will still score the delinquency for 7 years on an OC account, and 7 ½ years from date of first default on the OC account for any charge off or collection reported in your CR.  To get them removed sooner, you need to go through the good-will process, which is basically a mea culpa plea that most creditors ignore.  Unpaid debt can quickly mature from a simple CC monthly late, to a charge-off, then to a collection, and then to legal action.  All of which separately compile to your CR, and thus damage your credit score.  Decisions not to pay old debt involve legal matter such as statute of limitations (SOL) on your ability to defend yourself should legal action be brought against you. That becomes "hire an attorney" time.

If you have an unpaid collection account, that is where you want to focus.  It is a major derog in your credit score.  First, know your date of first delinquency (DOFD) with the original creditor (OC) that you first established the debt with.  Ignore whatever a collection agency (CA) has posted.  Add 7 ½ years to that DOFD, and that is the statutory date after which it must drop from your CR, and thus from FICO scoring.

A CA cannot legally re-age your DOFD, so that would not be a concern of mine in deciding whether to dispute a CA posting.

If you choose to pay a collection account debt, be aware that simple payment in no way improves FICO score.  You can try to get a PFD deletion from the CA before paying, or just wait for the 7 ½ period to toll from the DOFD on the OC account.  Those are the only two ways to get CA deletion (assuming the debt was legit in the first place)

It is hardly ever a wise strategy to close old accounts.  You basically just lose the existing CL on that account.  You face dropping of its age of accounts after ten years from closing the account in your average age of accounts calculation.  The only legit reason to close an existing account it to avoid yearly maintenance fees.

 

Pay your car loan only once a month, with at least the minimum monthly balance due.  Not to caste disperson on anyone, but loan payments are entered by clerks, not loan officers or attorneys.  They might not know the legal implications of recording only a partial payment.  Dont confuse the ignorant!

Message 3 of 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

"Paid cash for . . . a small house."

 

That totally rocks.

 

Definitely take a look at credit unions.  You might also consider talking to USAA.  In both cases an advantage is that you can call them up and have a fairly good chance of talking to someone who's relatively-well informed.  You might be able to just tell them your FICO score and get some idea of what you might qualify for.

 

You might also take a look at the credit card finder, which will show you credit cards by FICO range:

 

http://www.myfico.com/LoanCenter/Offers/CreditCards.aspx

 

Your FICOs are actually fairly reasonable, at least to my semi-knowledgeable eye.  There is probably someone out there who will give you a CC and/or card loan with a fairly decent limits and rates.

 

You might also consider a home-equity loan.  That would give you a great deal more flexibility in deciding your options.

 

Best wishes.

 

Message 4 of 11
Jazzzy
Valued Contributor

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

Hello...and welcome to the world of credit. My husband and I are older than you folks, and we just started focusing on our FICOs last year. We have had credit through the years, however, so we have some good history behind us. That you will have to build.

 

As has been said before, you don't need to close any accounts. Closed accounts still count in your history and your average, so closing them won't affect those.

 

As to your collections, you said they were medical. I would first try to call the original creditor and see if you can make an arrangement to pay them and have them call it back from collections. If they won't do that, then I would attempt a pay for delete (PFD) with the collection agency. That is where you pay them ONLY if they will agree in writing (before you pay anything) to remove all reporting from the credit bureaus. Another method (because they are medical) is to try to have them removed through the HIPPA process. We don't talk about that here on myFICO, so you would have to Google that process...but I have seen people have these collections removed.

 

Getting them off your reports is your best bet.

 

Have you gotten the public record off of your reports?

 

My advice is to get everything negative possible off of your reports before you apply for any more credit. If they are in error, this may be able to be done through disputes. If they are yours, you will have to deal with the creditors or collection agencies. We did this when we saw what was on our reports. Very humbling...but worth every bit of effort we put into it.

 

If you have no problem paying off your credit cards each month, you might want to try doing that before the statements cut. Getting below the 14% utilization may help your scores a bit. It sounds as if you are managing your current debt well...but you also have to manage what reports. At our house, we try to go online and pay them all off except for a tiny balance on one. Then we pay that tiny balance off right after the statement cuts. That way you show you are using the cards, but you are carrying no debt.

 

I don't know what to tell you about the car loan. It doesn't seem that it should hurt your score. In a manual review, however, it could pose some questions.

 

Do some reading on the Rebuilding Your Credit forum about your collection accounts. If you post some details there, you will soon be getting more advice on them.

Message 5 of 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

Woolfman:
Okay, I'm confused.  I've heard a score drops immediately when you close oldest accounts because that reduces the average age, so it seems closing newest accounts would have the opposite effect.  Others agree with you though, so you must be right.  I didn't want to close that one anyway.
 
Robert:
Thanks for the heads-up about credit unions.  There is one in my town.  I already have accounts at three banks for different purposes, but a CU makes sense.  Others recommended the same thing, so I'll get up there Monday and get something opened up.
 
Until I pulled reports recently I would have sworn they'd be spotless.  As far as I know haven't been a day late, much less 30.  When I saw the dings I thought "fraud!"  "identity theft!!"  Turned out to be simple entry errors on the other end on three of them.  What I've learned from this is that cash transactions, especially larger ones of types usually done on credit, seem to confuse computers or their operators.  I even have an 8 year old "open" account with a $0 balance showing on one report from when I paid 100% cash ($100 bills) for a car at a car lot.  I really think the remaining two dings are errors too, but they're so old the receipts are probably in a landfill by now. Hard Lesson:  Even if you've never borrowed a dime and never intend to, it's still important to pull the free reports.  Human errors can pile up on cash transactions if you're not watching.
 
Yes, I'm still showing two unpaid collections at Experian, but they're so old and so small I want to weigh the risks and effort vs. rewards before taking any action.  One CA that had to delete an account apparently decided to get in the last word with a hard inquiry on the date they deleted.  So I have a hard inquiry by a collection agency there for two years.  Disputing is not risk-free.
 
Once a month on the car loan.  Deal.  Just paid the 2nd half of the April payment, but starting next month only full payments.
 
Jack: 
Thanks.  It's a modest house and I tease about putting a "Don't Laugh: It's Paid For" sign on the porch. My banker suggested a possible home equity loan (but didn't promise approval).  Sounds expensive to set up but I'll look into it.
 
Lynnette:
Thanks for the warm welcome.  As I said, I'm reluctant to jump on those last two collections without receipts, but I'm reading the boards, getting info and ideas, might try it soon.  Yes, the "public record" has been deleted.  That was a tax lien placed when a cash payment was applied to "Account A" instead of "Account B" ten years ago.  One had a -$800 balance and the other had an $800 balance.  I fixed it immediately with a phone call but didn't know it was on my credit report all these years until I found it there and got it deleted recently.
 
Thanks Everyone.  After reading your responses (still welcoming more) my plan is:
Keep all current accounts open.
Open up a savings account at the local CU immediately.  Maybe wait a year and get a third CC there.
Apply for a second major bank card soon, maybe get a few months beyond the recent unemployment first.
Hold on to the current car loan for now and take a look at 2011s when they come out.
Get as much free advice as I can from my banker about likelihood of being approved for a home equity loan.
Hold off on disputing remaining dings until I learn more.
Continue using current cards for convenience but leave one tiny balance reporting for a month or two before applying for anything.
 
Thanks again!
Message 6 of 11
smallfry
Senior Contributor

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

L8 the medical collections on your Experian report are due to drop off when? Have you gone to www.annualcreditreport.com and received your reports? Do that. whatever you do do not dispute off those trimerge reports you got with the phony scores.

Message 7 of 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

smallfry says:

"L8 the medical collections on your Experian report are due to drop off when? Have you gone to www.annualcreditreport.com and received your reports? Do that. whatever you do do not dispute off those trimerge reports you got with the phony scores."

 

From what I can put together, I made the final payment sometime between Oct. '03 and Mar. '04.  So they're due to drop off sometime between Oct. '10 and Sept. '11?    They were first reported by two different CAs in July of '05.  The original bill from the hospital was something like $1500 sometime in '02, I think.  I only recieved one bill from the hospital and it included charges for a few doctors--primary, radiologist, etc.  I paid on that for over a year, maybe 15 or 16 months, and thought I had it paid off.  I only received the one bill on the day of services and never received updated statements.  Just kept paying in cash at the receivables desk at the hospital and subtracting payments from the original bill.  They did give me cash receipts but I don't have them now.  Never heard from either of these collection agencies, so I don't know when they got the accounts.  Since they're both first reported on the same date by different collection agencies, I'm guessing the hospital or one of the doctors or someone split a balance they think is remaining into two--one $38 and the other just over $300. 

 

I did use the Experian tri-merge to dispute three negative items and some erroneous personal information that were blatant entry errors.  That worked out fine.  Very fast.  The personal information was corrected immediately, one negative was deleted within three days and the other two took about ten days.  Those were not real disputes though, as the account holders agreed with me 100%.  These last two are more dodgy since I don't have the receipts, so I'll take your advice and dispute directly with EX and EQ if at all. 

 

Yes, after disputing the first three I pulled TU and EQ reports directly from annualcreditreport.com to make sure they were clear.  Haven't pulled EX from there yet.  Will keep that one available until I decide what to do.  Also pulled scores and reports from myfico.com just to cover the bases. 

 

I'm not really a score warrior.  If they're good enough to be approved for what little credit I want, that's good enough.  EQ and TU are fine.  If I could keep creditors away from EX I'd definitely be satisfied to let the last two fade away.  That being not the case, I have to figure out whether to dispute or let them drop off.

Message 8 of 11
Jazzzy
Valued Contributor

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals


@Anonymous wrote:

 

From what I can put together, I made the final payment sometime between Oct. '03 and Mar. '04.  So they're due to drop off sometime between Oct. '10 and Sept. '11?    They were first reported by two different CAs in July of '05.  


These will drop off 7 1/2 years from the date of first delinquency (DOFD). Your DOFD or the date these are due to drop off can be found on the credit report you get from annualcreditreport.com. The date you paid them makes no difference as to when they drop off.

Message 9 of 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Late Start, Hard Times, Modest Goals

This is just an update for anyone who remembers the original discussion.  I took most of the advice found here and it seems to have worked pretty good.

 

Starting simply, I switched to full car payments and kept the two existing CC accounts open as recommended.

 

Then waited a couple of weeks and applied for a new CC at a home improvement center.  Got approved with an astonishingly high credit limit.  It was plenty to finish the remodel with a 0% interest promotional period and I'm on schedule to have it paid off before the ridiculously high interest rate kicks in.  Also checked into the home improvement loan at the bank, but the cost--with loan initiation fee plus interest from the first day--was much higher than the CC.  Even considering that the bank loan would have been better on the credit reports, the CC was just a much better deal for the size loan I needed.

 

Next I opened a savings account at the local credit union as suggested and continue to make small regular monthly deposits.  Haven't applied for any kind of credit there yet, but it's easy to see that was a great suggestion that I wouldn't have thought of on my own.  Didn't open up a checking account 'cause really no one needs three checking accounts.

 

Then I waited about another month and requested increases on the two existing cards.  Got approved for both, but with small increases.

 

About that time, the mailbox started filling up with CC offers and I read them all waiting for a good one.  Last month, finally snagged a no-fee Discover Cashback Bonus card and got approved for a pretty high limit and low interest rate.  Offers are still arriving one or two each week.  I don't plan to apply for any more CCs but still read all the offers since they seem to be a good barometer of credit score.   It has been interesting to watch them evolve from terrible high-fee, high-interest, no-perks offers that usually included words like "you've earned this offer" to no-fee, low-interest , good-perks, and promotional 0% offers over the past few months.

 

I decided not to challenge the remaining two dings.  They may not fall off for another two years, but they're over five years old and don't seem to be a big issue with creditors. 

 

Still intend to apply for a car loan in the near future, but not in any hurry.

 

I'm still no Score Warrior, but thanks to this website and its contributors I have achieved the credit status I wanted.

 

Thanks Everyone.

Message 10 of 11
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